Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
My toothless old guy doesn't roll in his litter box. He just "forgets" to bury his stuff, steps in it, and comes out to greet me. Also ugh!
Cat lovers just have to be a little bit nuts.
I've noticed that since the "redesign" a couple months ago. Someone wanders onto a thread that is actually fairly tame and seems shocked at the tone of the debate.
>>Kissing a cat who has just rolled in his litter box? Ugh! :)<<
Oh no! She wouldn’t even touch him until after the bath. And I do have to say, she said that she would give him the bath but I knew that it would be a painful experience for the bather. I handled it.
She just cooed over him for the next hour, watching him shake and petting his head. He is now sleepy and fluffy again.
Cat lovers are a bit off, but that’s because we are graced with their presence!
If you do not wish to see RF posts, do NOT use the "everything" option on the browse. Instead, browse by "News/Activism." When you log back in, the browse will reset to "everything" - so be sure to set it back to "News/Activism."
Why?! It's so much more fun to see people aghast that FReepers who they know and respect are arguing like little kids on the Religion Forum.
Really? I didn’t know that...
To us the prayer of the saints means believers, not catholic saints, and these prayers came from those on earth.
Thank you and welcome back! You were missed.
LOL!
Heeeyyyy!!! Welcome home! I’m so happy to see you posting again. God is glorified by your faith in Jesus Christ alone!
Yes, we are encouraged to read scripture for ourselves. We are always seeking for truth.
My bible study group occasionally gets into the anti-Catholicism thing from time to time. I think it’s overblown. I agree that there are clearly some un-biblical tings in their views, including regarding Mary.
However, if you have faith in Christ than all your sins are forgiven, including believing in things that are not true. It may be a sin to have some of these beliefs about Mary, but is it any worse than my sins? Christians, it seems, are allways trying to seperate themselves on one thing or another. There is one fundamental: salvation through faith in Christ.
It was just a joke, son.
A complete fable which ultimately leads to the gross errors of Mariology, praying to Mary, viewing Mary as "co-redeemer" and "dispensatrix of all grace" and the blasphemous RCC insult to Christ that says Mary suffers for our sins.
You are definitely NOT my mother. LOL
Have a nice day.
Doesn't happen. Actually, the role of the magisterium has been more to correct utterly wrong interpretations (which happens rather infrequently) than to provide a line-by-line guide, which it doesn't do.
Catholics are free to meditate on the Scriptures, to gain insights into the inexhaustible richness of Scripture from many sources -- e.g., the Pope, in his Jesus of Nazareth, draws on Rabbi Neusner's book (title's something like A Jew Talks to Jesus), with great appreciation of the further depth of understanding it provides of Jewish roots of the New Testament. Doesn't mean Rabbi Neusner's book becomes part of the Magisterium. (I do plan to read it myself.)
Catholics have a responsibility, not stressed enough in recent years IMO, to keep learning, not to be content with the bare minimum.
That’s been my sense and perspective as well.
I think your goal and perspctive here:
Everyone should have a voice on the Religion Forum - whether on prayer, devotional, caucus, ecumenic or open threads.
Is quite wise and Godly.
Of course, some folks seem to be of a bent to try and uhhh bend the whole forum to heir sensibilities and constructions on reality—as though that is their 100% righteous duty.
That kind and level of cheekiness is not very fitting, imho, regardless of the label on the church sign.
My God is a LOT bigger than that.
And . . . in the annals of
FR ENTERTAINMENT . . .
it seems clear which are enjoyed more . . . if that’s the right word . . . LOL.
I don’t know, maybe we can figure out a way to get the Moonies and the Druids to start squabbling!
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