Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
Again?
Mary, when did you stop beating your husband?
You are describing different “styles ‘ of worship..by that analogy, we should be praying in secret caves or our homes only ..certainly NOT in churches, cause that’s how the early Christians did it.
They were all disciples of Christ, making them fathers of the Catholic Church.
You make a good point. But all Protestant prayer is not “worship” or you wouldn’t have Protestants praying for each other.
Your telling me that I was commanded by the Bible to answer it just shows how foolish your statements are. I decided to answer you because I actually felt badly that I had answered you in that manner. It was late at night and I was just annoyed enough to say fuggetaboutit. But I did answer you to the best of my ability and, as I expected, you didn’t accept my answer. I’ve come to the conclusion that no matter what I say, you will find a way to insult and demean the answer.
I didn’t intentionally change anything you said.
Your opinion of me really doesn’t matter that much. So, I would like it if you just don’t bother me anymore and I will try and do the same. You don’t want to dialogue, you want to insult, demean, and degrade.
It is normal to laugh at what one does not understand.
excuse me...the church of Rome? are we going to get insulting now.
Amen. They get pretty boring, don’t they?
“Later, those who came to hate the Catholic Church confected this spin about Petros v. petra”
Come on, give it up. I don’t hate the Catholic Church, why some of my best friends are Catholics. My findings are from a study of the Gospels and the Epistles of John in the Greek New Testament while in grad school. It was not an apologetic study but a exercise in Greek translation.
Isn’t that somethin’? tyger has other gems as well. He maintains that scripture isn’t enough for us to live the Christian life (paraphrasing).
Dood,
I think you’d be interested in analyzing the post this one points back to...
VERY INTERESTING.
“as YOU interpret it”
That goes without saying, as do we all.
Give what up? Did I claim you hate the Catholic Church?
...why some of my best friends are Catholics.
When asked, many bigots will point to their "black friend(s)." This is so common it was even a riotous storyline on Seinfeld.
My findings are from a study of the Gospels and the Epistles of John in the Greek New Testament while in grad school.
Protestant grad school? A class taught by a protestant? A result found by a protestant?
It was not an apologetic study but a exercise in Greek translation.
Whatever grade you got was too high.
My interpretation has the benefit of 1970+ years of Catholic scholarship and inspiration of the Holy Spirit?
How old are you?
INDEED. RIGHT YOU ARE.
However, when one tilts at the supreme skyscraper built on the most ‘unholy’ ‘unsanctified’
sliver of a rotten wood toothpick . . .
the fierceness MUST come out flailing . . . the whole house of cards is at risk.
Don’t see the word Catholic anywhere in there. No concept of Catholic found anywhere in the NT, either, for anything that is run from the earth.
The disciples of Jesus Christ who were used by the Holy Spirit to pen Scripure, never used either the word or the concept of “Catholic.”
And, I have never seen five verses of Scripture put in a row that could build the concept of “Catholic” in the sense of something visible on this earth today.
By that logic, the moon has only existed for less than a thousand years.
And, I have never seen five verses of Scripture put in a row that could build the concept of “Catholic” in the sense of something visible on this earth today.
INDEED.
Who wrote down what Jesus said? Which translation?
the King James version with old English? Or the newer language Bibles? and what about the Greek Orthodox church and their bible?
Men wrote down the bible....over a long time, AFTER Jesus was dead.
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