Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
Marian is more appropriate.
Indeed. It’s almost sickening. But they don’t worship Mary. Oh no.
YES!
IN the sense that
Prottys use an authentic instead of a rubber dictionary.
And in our authentic dictionary, we construe words to have reliable meanings. Our understanding of what we read flows accordingly.
Indeed, it is truth.
Mary couldn’t even save herself for heaven’s sake. And we’re to believe she can save us???? Only Jesus can save us, by the blood He shed on Calvary. Good grief.
Excellent points.
Though I think “Marian” is too weak for what we observe . . .
Maryolaters
seems to be the only sufficient wording for a lot of what I’ve seen.
All of 'em.
Okay class, repeat after me:
If A has more power than B, it does not follow that A is omnipotent.Also, we think in heaven they do time in a manner different from that in which we do it on earth. We think neither God nor those with Him are bound by time as we currently are.
“worship”
being taken from the rubber dictionary . . . and that after it’s been warmed up and made most flexible.
Interesting logic: those who do not agree with your own personal interpretation of Scripture either cannot read or cannot understand Scripture. That is autocratic enough to be the words of Cauvin himself.
So now you are explicitly denying the Gospel of Jesus Christ as taught by Christ and by Paul.
I would have thought you'd take a different tack. One not so perilously dead-ended.
What is the Gospel?
No one hates Mary, but this is the childish defense the RC’s will fall back on. They however, do seem to hate hearing the Word of God which condemns their idolatry.
HOWEVER, MD,
1. The words chosen
2. The phrases constructed
3. The sentences constructed
4. The “hymns” written to Mary . . .
. . .
. . .
leave Prottys with little room to construe it otherwise than
DRUM ROLL
BRAZEN PLASTERED ON BLASPHEMOUS OMNISCIENCE.
I can’t construe it any other way—IF—the RC org’s words mean anything the least bit consistent with linguistic integrity, AT ALL.
I have done no such thing. The direction I'm tacking is truth. You've defined the Gospel as four verses from First Corinthians and part of a verse from Mark. I'm defining it as at least the four Gospels, if not the entire New Testament.
INDEED.
This terrible error in the RCC catechism produces lethal idolatry which further contradicts the word of God when it confers on Mary the title of "Queen of all things" and "mediatrix."
"Flee from idolatry."
Problem is we DO understand and many of us are repelled by the Mariology and other heresies. It’s not that we hate Catholics. Just the opposite. We care enough to put ourselves on the line here because we want you to have eternal life, which only comes through belief in and commitment to the Lord Jesus Christ. Mary cannot save you; the Eucharist cannot save you; infant baptism cannot save you. HE IS THE ONLY WAY. Love, Mary
Reread what I wrote. NOWHERE did I say that any Protestants hate the Blessed Virgin Mary.
Moreover, God says they do worship the Queen of Heaven to deliberately provoke Him to anger. That’s what He thinks about their idolatry. Jeremiah 7:18
That’s only if you are depending on her to save you. She can’t, Petronski.
Great verse, enat. Carry on!
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