Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
My genealogy research on Rootsweb strongly points to evidence that our family is descended from Jews fleeing the Inquisition, so don’t throw antisemitism at me. Further I believe that Christianity is the next step in the religion of Judaism. Christ came to fulfill the Law and all those who worship the Father through Christ fulfill the Law. The Law cannot save, only Christ saves.
Well, it's mostly people in those backward countries that aren't as sophisticated as the average American ;o)
Which is why we say "intercede."
We know how punctillious some on your side can be when they're losing.
It is about loving G-d. NAsbU John 14:15 "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.It is not about salvation.
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua
Hardly.
The aggressive, accusatory comportment of many an anti-Catholic make it eminently appropriate.
Well that is really no business of yours, with all due respect.
>>From 7th grade onward.<<
It shows!
One of mine made it to Christmas of 1st grade. She is now 10 and starting on 8th grade next month.
The other made it to Halloween of Kindergarten. She was learning colors and shapes in school while doing vowel blends and two digit addition at home.
She is now 8 and starting into 6th grade.
Hope they turn out as good as you!
So was Scripture.
Ooops, looks like you are speaking for Catholics again! At least we don't worship the bible.
I have heard that he has some family problems.Put him in your prayers.
b'SHEM Yah'shua
Wasn’t there one of the preachers that took the Bible and held it up on a beach telling a hurricane to go away?
Quix got a vacation.
>>At least we don’t worship the bible.<<
Amen to that!
One truth that scripture teaches, and one that they conveniently and obstinately, overlook, is that none of us, no not one, but all have sinned and come short of the glory of God., Mary included
Any and all righteousness that a person ever has, comes from God Himself, none, not a one of us, can ever be righteous on our own. That idea is stated in the bible, over and over, but if you toss the bible out, you can make up feel good fantasy stories and just repeat them until you believe them.
Then the next thing you know, Mary is omnipresent, and is greater than the Son, co-partners with God, heck she is God..
Not the way you have defined it.
No if, just fact.
... and yet John Paul II declared she was the co-redeemer many times while he was pope
Declared, eh? Define declared. There was no declaration of Catholic doctrine.
...why didn't anyone in the RCC correct the pope?
Correct what?
LOL
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