Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
In order to be born as a man, Christ required a human mother. So, no Mary, no Christ.
You may have had a teacher who taught class while he "had a Bible on his hand" (neat trick and not so easy to do.)
Is that your proof he or Protestants "worship the Bible?"
Already answered.
How do our petitions get to God? Through Jesus. But Jesus is God, no? All petitions go to God through Jesus - He is the bottleneck, so to speak, but the petitions take many routes to Him. Why did the Psalmist command Angels - are they not in Heaven? If Angels in Heaven can hear us, why can't Saints?
No, I'm not thinking that.
Consequently I think since the saint's who see Him as He is are, if the Bible is to be believed, "like Him" in some respect, maybe that respect is charity, and maybe they pray for those who do not want their prayers or do not think they can pray.
So when it suits the RCC a pope's actions and opinions are to be considered as weighty and important and some of them even "infallible!"
But when it doesn't suit the RCC then we're supposed to keep quiet and not even speak about what a pope did or said or kissed.
>>You may have had a teacher who taught class while he “had a Bible on his hand” (neat trick and not so easy to do.)<<
It was pretty amazing. Some of us learned nothing while he balanced it. Good thing I had already taken honors English.
There’s lot of FReeper who have seen lots of non-Catholics worshiping the Bible. In fact, lots of us see it all the time. Protestants on tv holding up the Bible to ward off evil. And on a side note, Miracle Spring Water and prayer towels.
Are you saying that we are lying? Or maybe interperting things only our way withoout considering intent?
lol.
>>But when it doesn’t suit the RCC then we’re supposed to keep quiet and not even speak about what a pope did or said or kissed. <<
I know it’s hard to think about, but the man is Dead. As in D-E-A-D. He bought the farm, kicked the bucket, is no longer breathing. Whatever he did is between him and Our Lord. He passed on a while ago. I know some of us are really busy busting Catholics but there really is a whole news forum connected with FR.
It’s very informative over there.
Read 85 of the RCC catechism on vatican.va and tell me why my sentence is “curious” to you.
721 posted on June 1, 2008 7:20:11 PM MDT by Judith Anne
It could have been any Jewish maiden with Miriam's bloodlines.
b'SHEM Yah'shua
And don’t forget, there is no authority but God...and them.
All answered in Paul’s Letter to the Romans
And not a little difficulty in telling one from t’other.
Or are you looking through the Lens of Nicea with it's anti-semitism ?Did Paul and John worship on Shabbat ?
b'SHEM Yah'shua
From 7th grade onward.
Actually, if you availed yourself of those things He left for us, you wouldn't need to make so much up on your own.
Some of those TV preachers hold it in their right hands, up in the air, as though everything they were saying was scripture, LOL!
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.