Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
***One the other hand calling one man “The Holy Father” stretches the point.***
Possibly so, yet Paul himself calls himself the spiritual father of his flock.
C’mon Mad Dawg, I’ve seen plenty of judgement here for the separated brethren, the Reformed, the Calvinists, Protestant churches—all 30,000 of them (LOL). Be real. It doesn’t just happen on one side of the river, not by a LONGGGG shot.
Are you unaware of the term Church Fathers?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we know. Actually, we KNOW Christ’s church is the entire Body of Christ, which is guided by the Holy Spirit.
***We call creastors, Christmas Poinsettas and Easter Lillys. That’s when you see them.***
Not bad at all. Mind if I swipe this for future use?
And don’t let us protestants keep you from doing what’s right either.
Nope. It is saying the theory is itself a logical paradox. It prescribes only Scripture, yet to believe it, one must reject it, for it is not in Scripture. The theory itself is an impossibility.
Aren’t you using scripture to determine what is or is not authentic?
I'm taking sola scriptura at its face and finding it fatally flawed.
What is the authority for any other “rule” for faith and practice?
Faith & Tradition as set forth by the Church that Christ founded, the Catholic Church, as inspired and guided by the Holy Spirit.
Yes, the Catholic Church.
Hey, don’t leave ME out...
It is not the tomb of St. Peter (that's in Vatican City).
By the way, quite a lot of lies about the Catholic Church on that little article you linked.
I’ll do my best. :)
Now please tell us the difference between a St. Peter and Simon Bar Jonah after you read Matthew ch. 16 again.
HAH. We actually DO read scripture. Try it some time.
I was outside pulling weeds and I thought of this, it is purely human terms and feelings.
My granddaughter, who has always been full of sunshine, loves everyone. She excuses people who have willfully hurt her, it is just her nature and she is still like that even as a teenager.
But there was one incident in her life when she was about 5 that she has never been able to forgive or forget,she really struggles with it.
She was at the Drs. office with her mother when a man in a wheel chair came to the door. My DIL jumped up and opened the door for the man. Something about that infuriated him and he called my DIL foul names that you can’t even imagine. It was so bad that the receptionist called the police and they came and arrested him.
Anyway, my sunshiny granddaughter will still cry if this is ever spoken of. We have had a hard time convincing her that she should hope that he is in Heaven now.
She, herself has been disrespected by others and treated less than perfectly and she handles that with aplomb but she still can’t imagine how someone could call her perfectly, wonderful mother such awful things and treat her so disrespectfully.
To honor one’s parents is Biblical, and it is human nature to honor those who love you. I truly wonder how Jesus feels about love and honor given to His Mother being called blaspheme.
Do you think there was only one Simon son of John at the time Christ lived?
Do you think anyone should be impressed by quotations from that famously, venomously anti-Catholic screed by F. Paul Peterson?
Good grief.
Now, apparantly, there is one man named St. Peter who was buried in the Vatican, and a different man, named Simon Bar Jonah, who was buried in Jerusalem.
Do you really think we DON’T pray that Catholics will find the peace of God. All I ever hear from Catholics is how much we hate you. That couldn’t be further from the truth. I wouldn’t waste my time, energy and high blood pressure on any of this stuff if I didn’t care about Catholics and their eternal souls. I have the Peace of God because Jesus is my Lord and Saviour. I want that for all Catholics. We aren’t persecuting you. That’s such a ridiculous outlook. None of us enjoys the nasty comments that RC’s spit at us either. It’s not ‘fun’ for us to hear some of the things that are said about protestants from Catholics.
Which is roughly like saying “now apparently there are two men named Jim Johnson.”
You can be our “beloved infidel”, how’s that?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.