Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
I simply post the NGR apology and move on. It seems some of the faucets around here do not run hot and cold, but Gibberish and Hate.
So, it seems inescapable that in the view of the poster I'm responding to, I personally am
an apostate, heretic and heathen.
Thankfully, God has a very different perspective on my person and my soul.
However, it was a fascinating personal assault. A little late--here it is already after noon. I was beginning to miss my morning personal assault. I was beginning to feel unloved by my dear RC bretheren and sistern.
Tsk Tsk . . .
putting words in my fingers again that I didn’t write.
I thought RC’s were the experts on bearing false witness.
Oh, right, some ARE . . . in a manner of speaking.
I wish you could identify a post or two which justify your claim. I don't doubt your honesty but I sometimes doubt your ability to objectively interpret what was actually said.
Gibberish alert.
I don’t need to call my support staff every time I have to wipe my nose.
I thought I was the heathen?
When a Christian departs from grace, there is either repentence, or a retreat into legalism.
= =
Yeah, Prottys observe a LOT of that within the RC edifice.
I bow to greater expertise in the RC edifice in that regard.
***Doesn’t take living in China long to get used to being called a barbarian.
I now consider it quite a complement.***
Complement to what? Heresies?
About time for the RC mind-reading/heart-reading to get back on—err off track.
Though I note you decline to be more specific as to what those circumstances are....
But when I ask to be shown how they are inherently blasphemous, I get no answer.
It is so because you perceive it to be so? And you say WE are haughty?
I make an analogy to show how praising Mary with over-the-top titles is glorifying God for his work, and how begrudging such praise is like someone enviously condemning a person who sees and praises the beauty of the moon for forgetting the sun.
Do I get an argument? No. I get that somewhere in a galaxy far, far away there are examples of idolatry and a repetition that the words are per se idolatrous.
The questions are dodged, reason is despised, and the charge is repeated.
This Cor ad cor loquitur stuff is all very well as far as it goes. But when it comes to saying, "You're guilty because .. because, well because I just KNOW you are," well, it doesn't move the ball.
(Excuse me, I'm going for the prize for most mixed metaphors in one day.)
Ahhhh welllll . . . it’s
SOP
for the RC edifice as we’ve seen for many years.
I think we have to be compassionate and keep in mind the clay whereof we were all dug.
It is sad that Mary couldn’t find at least a few grams of humor in all her white hankys somewhere to toss down to the bereft RC’s hereon.
***When you submit your will and intellect to the Magisterium you become a happy robot.***
I have the Pillar and Foundation of Truth that instructs me as to what the Faith is. I do not reserve the right to make it all us as I go along.
Support staff???
I think I’m missing something here.
Except for The Truth of The Scriptures and The Lord God Almighty, I don’t see any support staff here???
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh, the buddies I often share the jokes with! Those characters! LOL.
Sorry their mirth doesn’t show up publically very often.
I have lots to say about the RC “priesthood” but I’ll stay focused on Marianism here. There is more to be said and the error is more obvious.
I did no such thing.
Really?
Oh, dear . . . heathen competition. Who’d a thunk!
LOL.
Thankfully, Their clumsiness in pinning the tail on the Cassocks leaves them little skill in pinning the tail on the heathen!
To my list of accolades from the Chinese! LOL.
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