Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
I must be missing something.
How is it again . . . that
fun = annoying?
No difference between christianity 101 and protestantism 101.
It's a bit difficult to understand how any authentic Christian can read such a list of outrageously blasphemous attributes of even the caricature of Mary
without their blood curdling and a vigorous anguished scream of utter dismay beginning in their big toes and rushing forth with great fury from their mouths.
Mind Boggling.
It's yet another way RC's disregard the scriptures. Any study of the bible will show the importance of God's name. Good heavens it's even one of the 10 commandments. So that importance of God's name is blasphemed in the way RCs give more and even loftier names to their idol Mary.
This goes beyond disregard. This is 1st degree blaspheme with malice afore thought.
Come on, admit it. You smiled at my "new noses" crack the other day ;o)
Yep, Catholics keep doing that to Protestants, don’t they? LOL.
Would you kindly cut me a HUGE chunk o' break here? Mary was many things, but I don't think we have bestowed on her the title of Shiksa. I think if you're going to unleash a barrage you ought to try to see to it that none of the shells is a dud.
And I'm looking for something in all this list that takes away from the Supreme Sovereignty of God. Coming up empty.The Great Divorce. Those who receive great gifts from God are indeed resplendent as the moon (at 0300 today) shone beautifully with a light not its own. I am confident that a few passing bits of space debris scoffed at all those who gazed on that moon and said, "How lovely!"
"How DARE they!" they said. "The SUN is the only source of light in this system! How impious to praise a mere satellite or a sunset or the light shining on the clouds! And I don't even want to HEAR about rainbows! Don't they know they must praise only the Sun and never his works in which he shows his glory?"
The Lord is glorious in all His works, but don't you let me catch you praising what He has done.
You bear false witness against a billion people with stunning facility.
“Sorry.”
Is that a new make-believe emotion to go with a new fantasized Scriptural interpretation?
Or
Is that the title of a new Vatican fantasy dogma?
Or is it a new book in the Canoized Apocralyptica?
Oh, I know . . . a new mode of dress for a new order of Sisters of Perpetual Whining. Only I think it should be spelled “Sari.”
Thank you, no. But 438 blocks have been flooded and the cops and national guard are guarding against vandalism and dangerous conditions. The people are very frustrated that they can't even go look at their houses.
But suddenly the Harpies arrive,Aeneid III.225ff.
in a fearsome swoop from the hills,
flapping their wings with a huge noise,
snatching at the food,
and fouling everything with their filthy touch:
then there's a deadly shriek amongst the foul stench.
More gibberish.
just curious, any sign of FEMA around?
No Shakespeare or Shakespearian references, please, and especially no references to “the Scottish Play”. It’s bad luck, AND, besides, there’s a serious body of opinion that Shakespeare was a crypto-Papist.
He is a barbarian, and thinks that the customs of his tribe and island are the laws of nature.
If we “hanged our harps on the willows”, does that make us harpies? (Never liked Dido)
What a GRANDIOSE fantasy! That's just a very small, close inner circle list of buddies who often enjoy the same jokes. Kind of a courtesy laugh sort of ping. Kind of an honor, actually.
Though I can understand that with all the twisted, over-the-line, excessive, off the wall veneration etc. thrown at the caricature of Mary . . . honor is kind of a super mangled thing in the RC edifice and may not be easily translatable in terms of the honor of sharing a joke with a group of buddies.
Exhibitionists need an audience.
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