Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
I believe this constitutes "mind reading" and is prohibited.
When you praise 4712 as a “wonderful post,” you reveal a lot about your belief about Catholicism.
***Catholics shouldn’t be complaining that we don’t understand you or your church. You have a very biased opinion of protestants as well, nasty even.***
I have a nasty opinion of those fringe groups that have developed very exotic theologies, call themselves true Christians and claim that the 2000 year old Church of Jesus Christ is wrong and they are all going to hell.
I have respect for “Catholic rite” Anglicans and Missouri Synod Lutherans, for example.
One of the difficulties in dealing with the plethora of Protestant denominations, congregations, bodies and what have you is attempting to keep each and all of them straight.
Marvelous insight, Mad Dawg! Thank you for this very fine essay/post.
We won’t go into the heresies of the Roman Catholic Church.
Thank you for sharing this mockery of my faith. I know you now by your fruits.
Or do you wish to retract these uncharitable words?
It's pointless to waste time on what does not exist.
You have my sympathies. I was on dialup for years and am SOOOO glad to be off it.
I’m learning from you, Petronski.
***Born again believers HAVE to live up to the message of Christ. The indwelling Holy Spirit doesn’t let us get away with NOT living that way.***
How does this work? Even the Reformed admit that true believers can fall away for a time. How does the indwelling Holy Spirit keep you from sinning? Are you frogmarched? Since all men sin, how do you live up to the message of Christ (sinless)?
***Just because we don’t believe Mary is our mommy and that the wafer is our daddy doesn’t mean what we believe is wrong. ***
I don’t know anyone who believes what you just said.
***JESUS is our strong tower and our salvation.***
Good.
***Nothing else.***
Not even the Holy Spirit? What about the graces that are bestowed upon us?
Mine and millions of other believers. I’m not alone in this belief.
The Church defines and attempts to eradicate heresy.
The Church is not in heresy and never has been.
Attributing motive is a form of "making it personal."
In this example, it would not be "making it personal" to say a statement is false, incorrect, misleading, etc. But to say it is a "lie" is to attribute a motive, the intent to deceive.
Yet again, you bear false witness against me with stunning facility.
***Mine and millions of other believers. I’m not alone in this belief.***
Millions of people believe in global warming. Millions of people worship Gaia. Doesn’t make it true.
Is that supposed to be protestant humor?
I don’t try to keep each and all of them straight. It’s an individual commitment to the Lord Jesus Christ that’s important, no matter how many denominations there are. There are protestants who are way off the bubble and there are Roman and Orthodox Catholics who are also way off the bubble. What counts is your relationship to Jesus Christ. True born again believers know that and want that for everyone.
As funny as a gall stone.
I don’t pretend to know the hearts of everyone who claims to be a Christian but yes, if they accept and believe what the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church teaches they are Christian.
Are all Protestants Christians?
Nope. There are enough uncharitable words from your side, so we’re even.
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