Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
If you died at this moment do you know that you would be in heaven?
Here we come, down to the nitty=gritty. Protestants think they are the judges of who is "saved" and who will "go to heaven." They claim the right to ask Catholics (and any other person with whom they disagree theologically) to ask those questions.
God will judge the protestants who set themselves up as judges of how others love and serve Him. Of that, I am certain. God will NOT ask me if I love Him the way some heretic says I should, according to a sola formula. Protestants should be careful that they don't end up condemned by their own words.
It has been clear on all these threads that this statement of yours is the way most if not all of the protestants think about Catholics. That is fully understood by Catholics here.
Furthermore, as you said above in post 4712, protestants think they are going to get to be the judges of those they've preached to who reject their word. You further state that when Catholics and protestants disagree, only one can be correct, and the wrong one goes to hell.
If I am wrong about your statements, please tell me. I do not want to misunderstand what is being said here.
Well, having been made aware of netmilsmom's super-duper parish I recognize the deficiencies in my own. But the pastor is a great one, an uninhibited lover of Christ, unrelenting teacher of the faith ( crucial, because modern Catholics are oblivious, it seems ), and....well...probably the best priest I have encountered in my lifetime. It is rare for a priest to be entirely orthodox, articulate, and affable, and warm, and wise, and witty, and strict, and be able to sing in tune as well. He is a grace-filled man that uses his numerous assets to their maximum potential. As you may know, I was a long time indultee before this priest lured me into his parish, and I give him enormous credit for knowing exactly what buttons to push.
The idea of continueing to wear the communion clothes was fantastic. There is nothing as beautiful and sweet and pure as a young girl in her white communion dress, and veil, and gloves......the sight induces tears of joy. Prolonging that joy is a rich, rich gift.
Father has explained that "this" is their parish and "this" is where they make their First Communion. It is done as a family with encouragement to invite their relatives. The woman's society gives each First Communicant, a silver box with the child's name engraved + the date of their First Communion. Inside is a rosary, already blessed by the pastor. We also have a sheet cake with the names of the children, so the entire parish can share in the joy of this beautiful event.
I am so not surprised. I am so familiar with your faith journey and what you have shared about your priest, that it seems natural that ya'll would do it up right. Maybe my priest reads your posts. :o)
I'm already gearing up for the Fall. This year, with Father's approval, I am asking the parents to introduce their children to the lives of the saints, have them pick one they like and make a costume to wear on All Saints Day. We will then have each child tell the parishioners about "their" saint. So far, the parent response has been very positive!
Bravo! This has been a long-time practice of our home-schooling group (and hugely popular). Our priest did the very same thing this past All-Saints Day, the "saints" processed into the Church with him. God bless you for introducing that practice into your parish. Frankly, I think a healthy knowledge of the saints can do enormous good. If I were a high school administrator, I would create a class on the saints. Those are the real role models, the friends of Jesus who encompass the vast variety of ways to serve and sacrifice for our Lord.
Thank you for sharing the experiences from your parish. God bless you, and your whole family. May your children grow strong in their faith.
Thank you. God bless you.
Some people don’t think they are their own personal popes, they think they are God.
Nope.
Your statement is flawed, in that you separate Catholics from Christians. Catholics and Protestants teach the same Gospel, but the Protestant version is burdened by severe errors (starting with sola scriptura and sola fide).
Catholics believe what the Bible says.
Many Roman Catholics are hearing the true Gospel on these threads...
And with the true Gospel, they are also hearing a boatload of lies about Catholicism.
ROFLOL! Oh! [Dabbing tears] LOLOLOLOL
I have read many many posts here from Catholics about how Protestants willing misread the Catholic stand about Mary, and get angry over the Protestant misunderstanding.
This comment is just as frustrating to Protestants. I don't know of ANY Protestants who would say that Mary is worthy of NOTHING. I have seen many Catholics say this and it frustrates me because it is so far from the truth. I believe all Protestants would say that Mary deserves respect, recognition of her blessed role in her willingness to walk in the will of God.
Please, show the respect for Protestants that you ask for your own beliefs. Do not spread the lie that Protestants believe that Mary is worthy of NOTHING, and are disrespectful towards her.
Becky
That is not true.
I don't know any Protestants who think they are judges of individuals. The bible does teach that we are all to judge teachings and doctrines, comparing them to what the bible says. No person can see another persons heart. Only God can do that.
If a teaching or doctrine does not line up with scripture we are to reject it as false, according to the bible. In discussions such as on this forum, where people express their beliefs freely, these beliefs should be what is being judged, not individual hearts.
Becky
And at least a few falsehoods about other denominations.
But of course, brother!
Good morning.
Hi
No power since 2000 last night. Branches all over the yard. Waiting for this pathetic Dell battery to shut me down or for the power to come on so I can take a shower and make myself fit for human company.
I imagine there are hugh differences from one Catholic church to another. My new son in law is Catholic. He is a very nice person but has absolutely no thoughts on the bible. To him it is a social club with religious trimmings. He has no interest in attending except for special occasions. We have another couple of friends that we have a beer with on saturday nights. The are RCs also and have almost no thoughts on what the bible says. But they go to Mass all the time.
You’re on dial-up?
In such a conversation we are always going to be treading inadvertently on one another's corns.
He is a very nice person but has absolutely no thoughts on the bible. ... The are RCs also and have almost no thoughts on what the bible says.
You're really in no position to know this.
Y (pause ten seconds) e (pause ten seconds) a (pause ten seconds) h!
Cable does not reach unto us, nor doth DSL, and a “satellite” would just be a big “kick me” sign to Thor.
Lightning once hit a tree outside my window, and wrecked a computer, and Iomega drive, and a printer. This was long ago with a PC XT, and one chip in the computer was physically blown into 2 pieces.
LOL. I think this risk could be mitigated with a grounding rod.
Please to not take any offense with this, but knowing what I do of your views, if I as a Catholic was a personal friend of yours, I wouldn’t want to discuss religion with you either.
This DOES NOT mean that we couldn’t be friends. I have some friends and relatives who are liberals, we don’t discuss politics and it seems to work just fine.
Amen to that, dearest sister in Christ! Praise God!
Thank you so much for your beautiful essay/post!
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