Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
"The Bible is 700 pages but the CCC is 900 pages . . . bwa ha ah aha ha aha hah ahah!"
Followed by:
Uh, the ICR is 1300 pages...in two volumes.
I’ve actually admired your last two Popes. I’ve never held anything against them except I don’t venerate them as Catholics do. Yes, prayers to God are essential. Eternity is real and no matter how one feels about God, they WILL spend eternity somewhere. We are eternal beings. Without Christ, eternity will be hell. That’s why I’m always concerned about these things. There will be many Catholics in heaven, for sure; there will also be Catholics in hell. The same goes for Protestants.
I love God. And I will not consciously put anything before Him; not my family or my children (which IS hard). I will put no other personage in the Bible before Him, nor any man in authority over a denomination over Him. I will pray to no one but Him, through only Jesus our intercessor.
I know you love God, too, mgist. I have never doubted that.
And don’t forget pope Calvin and popes Calvinist that they seem to worship the same or sometimes more than God and Scripture.
Yep. If you go into any Christian bookstore, you will see encyclopedia-length sets by multiple authors that interpret Scripture. Why would ANYONE pay for this when, according to their beliefs, ANYONE can be a world class theologian simply by asking the Holy Spirit?
The generator setup, unless you go for one of those multi-thousand "professional" systems is generally two or three components.
1. Generator (preferably electric start) with a capacity sufficient to handle your basic requirements for a day or two. You can do without a washer & dryer, electric stove, oven and the like but you need some lights, air conditioning, heat, unless it is 220 volt electric heat, fridge, tv ?, etc. In a small house a 6500 watt (peak) generator is usually sufficient.
2. Materials: Transfer switch, wire, & etc.
3. Either a professional electrician or someone who can wire a transfer switch into the house circuits. Mine consists of 6 manual switches which transfer between line & generator.
Oh, by the way, leave a light or radio turned on loud, off the switch so you will have an indication when power is restored. I leave the circuit my hall light is on off the switch. When power goes off I turn one light duty circuit (lr lights for example) on in my transfer switch, start the generator and switch on the circuits I plan on using. (If you switched all the circuits on and then started the generator the starting draw would overload the generator and pop it's circuit breaker. Not nice.
When your "signal light or radio" turns on and stays on for a while you can switch your transfer switches from Generator to Line and shut down the generator.
It's not as much trouble as it may sound here. The entire procedure takes but a few minutes.
BTW if you have an attached garage don't use it for your generator. My garage is detached and I open windows in it when I am running the generator.
I doubt that many who are not Catholic or Anglican, would be able to say for certainty whether they were in a Catholic Mass or High Anglican service if they were blindfolded.
My mother is a spiritual rock, she has been a great example. Surprisingly enough I am the one who gets mad at her for not teaching me things that she had growing up, like the rosary. I am now more devout than she is. Still she credits her Catholic upbringing for protecting her from the social ills that really hurt an entire generation. My personal experiences make me appreciate the many great traditions of our Catholic faith. I'm sure there are many exceptions. There are exceptions for everybody. I believe what I believe, not because of the "magesterium", we all learn from our experiences.
This agrees with the Catholic Church.
...or performed good works which are as "filthy rags" to God...
Faith without works is dead.
...or believed in "another Christ"...
That term alter Christus does not mean what it has been contorted and misrepresented to mean, as the Catholic Church does not teach that each priest is some fresh new Messiah equal to Christ.
...or venerated and prayed to, through, for, by (insert the preposition of your choice) Mary.
Thank you for your own personal interpretation of Scripture.
AMEN, Quix.
Well, I don’t see it that way but...
Central New York.
“I consider that there are many Bible verses to prove both sides.”
Furthermore, has anyone documented a case of the Holy Spirit allowing an illiterate to be saved merely by its miraculous indwelling allowing the illiterate to peruse Scripture and be saved?
Scripture didn’t descend like the monoliths in 2001: A Space Odyssey to raise mankind by its mere presence. How many “Bible alone” Christians do not at some point turn to Webster’s Dictionary or Strong’s Concordance? The tradition which interprets for them is not then the tradition of the Holy Spirit operating without mediation.
“Scripture alone” always means “MY interpretation of Scripture alone,” as our circular considerations of such things as “prostration” and the nature and meaning of “worship,” both of which can be shown in the original languages of Scripture to be applied by righteous people to other non-divine mortals.
Should I enclose it if I have an attached garage?
This is going on “the man’s” Honey-Do list, as he likes to call it!
Amen!
Amen.
Prepare yourself, NMMom, copper wiring has become obscenely expensive. Store it inside.
Hmm, seems like you read that one, LOL.
Nothing is totally clear to me. I need things explained. I have gotten the wrong message from reading the Bible by myself. The Holy Spirit didn’t help me out although I prayed and prayed for enlightenment.
I found my way back to the Church and realized that this is where I need to be. I’m not a scholar. I only have the smarts that God gives me. I need guidance and so I am here.
It’s great that you can do it on your own. I can’t. And I’m not going to take another person’s interpertation over those I think are ordained by God to guide me. Even with bold type and underlining
I listen to my Church for that guidance, you can listen to whomever you like. I think we’re both Americans and so we have that right.
Done deal.
Are you supposed to be bringing in comments from other threads????
And works without faith is also dead.
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