Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
I trust you can read and reason, Petronski, so what’s the problem? Not clear enough or what????
You’re welcome Petronski. Hope yours will get you into Heaven one day. I look forward to your being there.
Someone had to know the truth of the scriptures. Jesus certainly did. There were people who taught the others what the scriptures themselves taught. That’s the way it’s always been. The Early Church (not the Catholic church) certainly must have taught their converts what they learned from others.
We’ve been round robin’s barn on this a few times, wagglebee. Protestants do not believe when we take communion that it is the actual blood and body of the Lord Jesus Christ. We probably never will. We aren’t cannibals. The Eucharist can save no one, even if you take it faithfully. ONLY putting your faith and trust in Jesus Christ will do that, not eating a wafer you think is Him.
LOL. So true.
>>Bible was the truth and your one true church lied to you.<<
Can you give me an example of the Catholic Church teaching that the Bible lies?
Has the "mystery which hath been hid from the ages and from generations" "now been made manifest" to you, mgist?
You called that remark ""personally nasty."
How is that question "personally nasty???"
I would think most Christians would be happy to answer that question. I am...
Yes, thank God, by His merciful grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone, the "mystery which hath been hid from the ages and from generations" has "now been made manifest" to me by the Holy Spirit who guides me through the Holy Scriptures, according to the will of God.
Thank you, Jesus.
So how in the world does that remark warrant mgist's response comparing me to "Al Qaeda !?!"
As I said, it's laughable.
And I also notice I've received no answer from mgist. How about you, netmilsmom? Has the "mystery which hath been hid from the ages and from generations now been made manifest" to you?
Or is that question offensive to you?
Yeah, that’s a goodie. I pray we all end up in heaven so we can really get to know each other!
Comments?
Salvation is that easy. But:)....IMO, it needs more explanation to be clear.I believe Catholics can be saved hence Christian, just as I believe Protestants can be lost, hence not Christian.
Becky
Forgive me if I continue to dance around the question without trying again to address it "full on". I guess I'm hoping that the sentences used to flesh out the question will evolve to a place where I think I can say something useful and direct.
Anyway, I think we are presented with two phenomena: (1)Cult of saints, especially Mary; (2)Controversies.
I would venture to say that both of these arose sort of independently of the development of the canon of the NT. And nobody was saying, Hey! We need to check this stuff with the Scriptures and only the Scriptures.
The controversies, starting with the Gentile circumcision controversy, established the Church as the bearer (or the speaker? conduit?) of an unfolding (developing) revelation. (Why weren't the Bereans called upon as "periti", experts, in the Council in Jerusalem?) What does it mean, if anything, that the Bereans are singled out for this description and notice?)
There is a discontinuity in the Biblical record, but why must we think that there was a discontinuity in the life of the Church. It is only after the Reformation tht we look back and say, Hey! Looka that! The Council of Trent closed the OT canon! But the Church for all those hundreds of years wasn't fretting about the OT canon or thinking it must be closed, not until there was a controversy.
And presumably the Church knew about the Bereans and their study of the OT to see if Jesus was the Christ. But it was only sporadically (as far as we know) that people suggested that should be the only way to study, and that it should be expanded to include the NT.
So I think the question about the Bereans and the now suggests what may be a false picture and a false discontinuity.
This is kind of smrt-alecky, but I think it's important:
Are we so different than the Jews and Greeks of Paul’s time that we need more interpretive aids than they did?
Well, there's the NT. Do we complain about needing THAT interpretive aid?
Please don't give up on me. I think we may be able to get somewhere.
Where do I do that? Of course Jesus loved His mother more than any other human. That doesn’t mean he prayed to her or expects us to. We pray to God through the true intercessor, the Son.
Your unbelief in sola scripture certainly sends out a few clues.
The “al Queda” sidebar has been removed as it was clearly “making it personal.” Do not pick at the scab.
That’s true. There are what we call carnal christians, those who may attend church but not really believe in Jesus as their Lord and Saviour. When Catholics put their faith and trust in Jesus as Lord and Saviour, they are saved.
Sorry, personal nasty has come up from time to time.
When you use someone’s name, it’s personal.
And if you don’t want to be compared with a group that thinks that everyone who doesn’t believe what they do will end up in the fires of hell, don’t state it. I wouldn’t have used that group but as Dear Old Reggie said, you two are both adults. I wouldn’t presume that Our Lord would condemn anyone to hell. I am not Him and do not know His mind.
Pick at a person and that person may just go off on you. Hand a person some respect and you will get that back.
I don’t claim manifestation about anything.
Do you think Mgist will go to heaven, being a Catholic?
Do you have a scripture that backs this? I would say the Jesus loved all His people equally. His love is beyond our understanding.
>>Your unbelief in sola scripture certainly sends out a few clues.<<
Where is Sola Scriptura in the Bible?
Wouldn’t you love your mother more than the lady next door? It’s a natural feeling. God IS love, for sure, but the human part of Jesus had a mother he loved and even though scripture doesn’t come right out and say so, I believe it’s true.
As I've suggested before, perhaps you should figure out what other Protestants believe before you start debating Catholics about it. MOST Protestants, believe in some form of the Real Presense.
I would qualify this statement by saying "When Catholics put their faith and trust ONLY in Jesus as Lord and Savior, they are saved, they become saints:). Any works they do, they do because they are saved, not to earn salvation or to keep their salvation.
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