Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
Oh, brother. That’s a hoot!!!
Same thing happened to me.
I'm not sure why I would want to do that, unless the person you refer to has a habit of flaming the Catholic church.
If Rome doesn't like the meaning of the words they use, they should publish different words.
"Another Christ" is fairly self-explanatory...and condemned.
That'd be your own personal interpretation of Scripture, and you're welcome to it.
Do you think this toughness might be why we are so much better at apologetics? I know the popular image of Jesus is he was only meek and mild. He was also very tough. He was also surrounded by strong men and women.
Except what I was referring to is people who regularly smear the Catholic church who then get upset when the Pope makes a comment they don't like. Glass houses and such.
The capitol city of Italy is having vocabulary problems?
"Another Christ" is fairly self-explanatory...and condemned.
If it were self-explanatory, you would understand what it means...unless your misrepresentations are willful.
You state that Mary conceived of Jesus without consent.
The only ones who inseminate without consent are rapists.
Thankfully, even the plowboy can read the Scriptures for himself and know his salvation has been won for him by God's grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.
There is no Catholic teaching, and statements from a few "Non-Catholic" haters, which is so clear it cannot be denied, modified, or reinterpreted as required.
Good grief. Give me a break! Such nonsense.
And your response today is no more clear than it was then.
“Therefore, these separated Churches and communities as such, though we believe they suffer from defects, have by no means been deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Catholic Church”.66
Pope Benedict
It is clear for those who have eyes to see.
Or God.
Did Paul "consent" to God on the road to Damascus?
Deception, my dear.
God is not a rapist. The force of your argument is that the Holy Spirit is a rapist.
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