Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
It wasn't directed at you. I gave you the "answers" because I like you. I requested wagglebee to check the history.
Who is your "boss" that you referenced in your first post? Who are you? What is your bias?
“I have faith—I believe..”
But what is that faith and belief based on? Is it based on what one’s parents or family or friends or culture or community, job, education or even what one’s church believes? What convinced you that your faith/belief in the sources are well founded so that you risk your eternal wellbeing (I am assuming from what I have seen that you believe in the after life) on its truth?
I don’t mean to make this personal; the “you/your” should be read as the impersonal “one”, but you have been gracious enough to respond to the questions.
I have no idea what that means. As to “bias” I thought I stated that I was a Cynic. The only other bias maybe is skepticism, especially with the arguments, if that is what they can be called, on this thread. The questions go to the heart of the topic of this thread.
I can understand your reluctance to answer the questions.
Who is your boss, that you referenced in your first post ever? What does he/she have to do with the RF? What is your interest/bias?
I am not reluctant at all, to a regular participant on this forum.
Your first post was a question. What is the purpose of such a survey? To what use will it be put? Who are you, and why would a Cynic be here? Who is your boss?
The reason for my hope is that God created me and Jesus died to save my soul. The Ultimate Truth, is the Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
The FULLNESS of that Truth comes through the Holy Spirit, promised and delivered at Pentacost, through the Catholic Church which is One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic. It is the only Church which has existed since the day the Church received the Holy Spirit and we have been assured that the “gates of hell, shall not prevail” against her.
Get out your Bible and search for Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth, it is about the shortest explanation of our faith available.
We have no problem defending our faith, most of us have been doing it for years.
I can appreciate the fact that one might not want to disclose his/her employer, depending on the motive for the survey.
If not a setup this thread is not the appropriate forum. (I have blocked this one with my "Parental Control" button.) :)
Thanks, Reggie. It stinks to me.
Oooops! Sorry!
Ah, come on, his motives can’t be any worse than the sado-evangelists. I have an argumentative, athiest brother and he can’t hold a candle to them.
Then let him/her answer the questions. I have another one: what is the bias of his/her boss? Is his/her boss a FReeper? Taking regular part in the RF? Who is it?
I will bow to your wisdom and ignore him too until he answers the questions.
Ooooh, snap!
>>(I have blocked this one with my “Parental Control” button.) :) <<
Is there really one of those??
Right up until I read #3660.
What, no answers?
And just like that **poof** he was gone.
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