Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
How is it “foolish”? Did I not give a verse?
"Magicsterical" (which I don't remember whether you used or not, I wasn't necessarily talking about you) is not a word dripping with charity or respect for the sensitivities of others, especially those who think that the magisterial function is fulfilling of a promise God made to us.
He makes far more sense than, uh, some.
So can we...
You are to pray to God the Father through His Son, Jesus Christ, NOT the Holy Spirit.
I can appreciate Mr. Ratzinger’s words.
This needs to be read by some of the Catholics who have posted to us. Some of the Catholics themselves have tried to do the super-elevation. We didn’t pull the expression “Co-Redemptrix” out of our own bag of words.
I have NEVER been in a church that would say those things. I don’t doubt that there are people who would, but I’ve never heard it. Most Protestant churches gather around those in our midst who have suffered losses. We don’t heap condemnation on them.
No, that's how little I think of false doctrines and those that defend them.
Catholic? Hmmmm.
Mom always told me to stay out of ‘those joints.’ LOL.
I confess ignorance on THAT one. I thought the ‘M’ word had something to do with a council or something. Anyway, I had asked a question as to whether it was so, and that’s as far as I went.
Whew, not any more than we protties are, LOL.
Thought I loathe Marianism, I'd never say that Mary is anything less than the bible says of her. You seem to be ready to over react and throw the baby out with the bathwater. I'm often surprised at how little regard RCs have for the bible. I mean sure, their doctrine screams that fact but in debate they will often flat out attack the bible.
“Late-nite TV has nothing on the FR religion forum. :)”
Yeah, but late night TV has A LOT FEWER re-runs and A LOT MORE original programming.
;-)
sitetest
The Holy Spirit guides us to the Son. Mary can’t. “She’s dead, Jim.”
Becky
Very interesting.
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