Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
What a coincidence, I just don’t like hate tossed around like a salad.
That’s right.
You are the one who decided that Catholics aren’t even Christians.
The hate on this thread just got cranked up a few more notches,
That may be true, there are many apparitions which the church hasn’t accepted yet. We have been blessed with many messages from Our Lady and our Savior. My point is that these events have had a big influence on many Catholic believers. The messages are beautifull. They are truly for everyone. There are those who are so filled with “darkness” that aren’t willing to see or hear. I have no problem listening to Rick Warren, and enjoying what he says. There is a difference in saying, “that isn’t what the Catholic church teaches (which that message is)” and insinuating that “everyone else is condemned to hell.” That is for God to decide.
Yes, Lord, and have mercy on the Protestants, too. LOL.
You’re blaming the anti-Catholic hate in 2101 on the Baptists?
Oh I forgot. The answer is "always".
Exactly!
Examples?
The offspring of the woman will crush the serpents head, the offspring of the serpent will bite (his)(the offspring of the woman) heel.
Then quit it.
I’m not tossing around any hate, I’m defending my faith against baseless lies, calumnies and, yes, hate/
I didn't decide that, the Bible did.
Nooo, I’m saying the Catholics were the ones. Read it again and again till you understand it. Not too hard.
to your post 2027
Since Mary and the Saints aren’t in Heaven, they’re dead for now. Probably in Purgatory (lol).
So, how do you interpret this?
Jesus said to them: "The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: But they that shall be accounted worthy of that world, and of the resurrection from the dead, shall neither be married, nor take wives. Neither can they die any more: for they are equal to the angels, and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection. Now that the dead rise again, Moses also showed, at the bush, when he called the Lord, The God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob; For he is not the God of the dead, but of the living: for all live to him." (Luke 20:34-38)
The Catholics are spouting off anti-Catholic hate?
Good grief.
Really? I would think anyone would be truly grateful to have the record corrected on Hebrew! ;-)
There’s been a “whore of Babylon” reference.
I was NOT referring to you. :O)
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