Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
MESSAGE FROM OUR LORD THROUGH FR. JACK SPAULDING AT ST. MARIA GORETTI CHURCH, SCOTTSDALE, AZ
"My dear ones, I come to you this night from My Father as the Incarnation of His Mercy to you. My dear ones, I do not have pity on you. I give instead My Mercy. I ask each of you this night the same question I asked of Bartemeus, "What do you want Me to do for you?" My dear ones, I have been waiting for you to answer that question for a long, long time in your terms. I wait still.
Listen to the example of Bartemeus. "Lord, he said, I want to see." My dear ones, so many are still so blind. If you only ask to see, I will heal your blindness. And once your blindness is healed, you will be able to see. You will be able to see Me in everything you do. And so, I the Mercy of your God, I your Lord and your Savior asks again, what do you want Me to do for you?
---- (long pause)---- Be healed, My dear ones, of your blindness. See Me, and see yourself as God, My Father and your Father, sees you. Do not be afraid to see. I am with you. I am within you. Look at Me and be healed. I love you. I am with you always."
http://www.apparitions.org/Scot_msg96.html#a /
I don't think our Lord cares if we are Catholic or whatever. He wants us to love him. Catholics have certainly been given many gifts, what we do will them is up to us. All of us.
Yes.
But I think some hate us, plain and simple.
No.
You need to learn the difference.
RCs remind me of the guy naked in bed with a woman not his wife and his wife walks in on them. “Honey its not what you think. Who you gonna believe? Me or your lying eyes?”
You have taken the Faith of Jesus of Nazareth, as taught to the Desciples and handed down directly to The Body of Christ ... us ... and turned it into a human institution. A State institution at that.
1600 years of history for all of us to plainly see and a Bible to compare the RC faith to the True Faith and its clear to anyone not brainwashed or in on the plot.
We believe our eyes.
I don’t know of any here who hate the RC edifice wholesale and certainly not Mary.
God heals who He will heal. A request by a Saint will not cause God to change His mind.
That's fine, but you really don't even understand what we believe. Only that you don't like it. I'm sure no Catholic has told you that the way you worship our savior is wrong. We are taught humility and love. Our faith doesn't allow for that. We are not perfect, that we can agree on. Are you?
On the basis of the Bible, Sacred Tradition, and the Magisterium of the Church.
Such foul calumny.
Lord forgive those who slander against us, for they know not what they do!!!!!
Still bad, you are implying Protestants, not some unknown “one”
No, that is what you yourselves tell us, using the wedding at Cana as your example.
>>I don’t know of any here who hate the RC edifice wholesale and certainly not Mary.<<
I agree with this (well maybe one or two - there are no absolutes) but when a person posts something to the effect of, “When I see someone’s tagline, it makes me gag.”, it’s not love.
Let me type the words, “Holy Mother of God, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.” People do hate it and stated such.
It’s okay though, it’s an open thread. We are allowed to say such things but should not personalized it as, The person gagging Hates me. It’s not me, it’s my words that person hates.
The Catholic Church was founded by Christ circa AD 32.
The Catholic Church was founded by Christ circa AD 32.
The Catholic Church does not teach that.
>>Still bad, you are implying Protestants, not some unknown “one”<<
Well no, actually I’ve seen people personalize another’s post from many different sides.
I hate when someone gives a reference without a citation. Do I hate that person? Oh Goodness, no!
It goes round and round.
False.
Such foul calumny.
On the contrary, my statement is all to true.
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