Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
I’d love to be convinced of that.
ta da . . . off for a while.
Well, this has been fun, but I have obligations for the next 12 hours.
BTW, it’s nice to see such a wonderfully growing finesse with the use of the term
HOGWASH.
Don’t you know? People are supposed to pray to Mary because she’s not so busy and has an ‘in’ with the big guy! (and will ‘intercede on our behalf’
God is too busy with people praying right to him, so he checks occasionally with Mary to see who he should put on his priority list.
Be careful- the Marianists are a touchy group.
That's not Catholic teaching.
Was that met to be hurtful to Cathlics?
A little leven levens the whole lump. It starts with a extra scriptural respect for Mary, then it becomes full blown worship. So then justification for that worship starts with a little bible supplementation, then it becomes full blown removal of the bible and replacement with the pope and tradition.
The Catholic Church does not teach that, in fact it specifically rejects it.
...then it becomes full blown removal of the bible and replacement with the pope and tradition.
You are bearing false witness against an entire church, the Church founded by Christ Himself.
******************
Well said.
****************
LOL! Well, thanks.
I need to correct myself here. It was around AD 90.
Mark 12:30 AND YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, Mark 12:31 "The second is this, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.'[Lev. 19:18] Mark 12:32 Mark 12:33 AND TO LOVE HIM WITH ALL THE HEART AND WITH Mark 12:34 When Jesus (Yah'shua) saw that he had answered intelligently, He said to him,I prefer this event from the lips of Yah'shua remembered by Peter through the pen of Mark
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach Adonai
Mark 12:29 Jesus( Yah'shua ) answered, "The foremost is,
'HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD;
AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.'
[Deut. 6:4,5]
There is no other commandment greater than these."
that HE IS ONE, AND THERE IS NO ONE ELSE BESIDES HIM;
ALL THE UNDERSTANDING AND WITH ALL THE STRENGTH,
AND TO LOVE ONE'S NEIGHBOR AS HIMSELF,
is much more than all burnt offerings and sacrifices."
"You are not far from the kingdom of God."
I’m coming, too, Gamecock. Hope you have good food!
AMEN!
Mad Dawg, you’re beginning to sound paranoid. Now, I know you aren’t...but that’s just nonsensical.
I have never known anyone to consciously gang up on any Catholic FReeper. Sounds like a good idea though (LOL) Just kidding.
I DO understand how you feel. It’s very difficult to write something and have it sound loving, it really is. I have gotten into mucho trouble myself in letters when I meant it in good faith but it didn’t come out that way to the recipient of said letter. I do care about all of you. I hope it comes out but I know sometimes it doesn’t. I can’t speak for anyone else but I don’t think any of the prottys on these threads hates Catholics AT ALL.
I think I’ve seen that before, LOL.
No lie.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.