Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
But the Catholic Church began AD 32 at the Pentecost.
Quix-draw, like quite a few posters on the religious forums, likes to repeat fabrications about the Catholic faith and Church. It’s a form of justification.
the largest and most universal Church on Earth, I’d say that God has blessed us pretty abundantly.
= = =
LOL. Of course the Roman edifice’s dogma on birth control has absolutely nothing to do with that ‘abundant blessing of babies’ within the RC club!
LOL
/s
I love the KJV for the beauty of the language, but in no way do I consider it an authoritative version. For one thing, language has changed since it was written, some archaic words have lost their meaning, and it is incomplete. Nor do I worship it. <
The KJV is a noble work, to be sure, but not infallible, and certainly, no matter how beautifully bound, only a thing, paper, ink, worth only the money it fetches in the market. Worshipping the KJV is idolatry.
I don’t really know of any Prottys hereon who’d remotely qualify as ‘RC bigots.’
Some of us are more anti-Romanism generally speaking than others of us. But I wouldn’t classify even the most ardent anti-Romanism as an
obsessive anti-Roman Catholic.
Our emotions and priorities are invested elsewhere.
BTW, what clinical criteria list do is used when assessing whether someone is obsessive anything, or not?
And what training and internships furthered the learning of the proper use of such criteria?
Exactly. Now, a textbook, or an exposition, or a lengthy novel, or an encyclopedia or a CATECHISM would be different from a verbose, repetitive, off-tangent poster on an internet religion forum
As to the lies. . . they seem to be part of the poison of the anti-Catholic fetishists, a tiny but spiteful subset of the protestant population.
Kinda goes with the mentality of so deeply internalizing Biblical heresies and anti-Catholic hatred as to become convinced that they have the right to try (rhetorically, for now) to destroy the Church founded by Christ Himself.
I haven’t seen the mob mentality at all.
I see carefully thought out and often carefully researched out concern, awareness, sadness re RC excesses and outrageousness.
cue laughing dog.
Honestly, the “how can Mary be omniscient” line is as stupid and vacuous as the “Can God make a rock...etc.” question.
= = =
NONSENSE.
It quite logically follows the outrageous claim that Mary hears all prayers to her. Whether one fancies almost omnicience or whatever . . . the outrageous assertion about Mary’s listening skills automatically triggers the very logcial response of . . . how on earth could ANY Biblically grounded person ever fantasize such a thing when Scripture gives not the least hint of such on Mary’s part. Further—nor does it give the least hint of such on anyone else’s part including all the Apostles.
HOGWASH!
These threads are full of the same old anti-Catholics posting the same old drivel thread after thread!
Fortunately, we Catholics can laugh about it. If ever an original argument came up against the Church, it would be nice.
Instead, all protestants know how to do is protest. Is it genetic, this tendency to hate genuine religious authority? Or acquired?
“Now, little Johnnie, repeat our five favorite arguments against Catholics, and you can have dessert.”
Well, in that case, you should know that someone's stealing your screen names to post an awful lot on Catholic threads!
I guess they have no spiritual imagination. It's a miracle the Holy Spirit manages to drum James 1:22 into their brains, much less John 3:16. Of course, Christ Himself said, "Eye hath not seen...." I'm sure any decently educated and biblically well-read protestant knows the rest of that verse? From the KJV (even though it's open to each one's individual interpretation).
It certainly could be described as a mental disease akin to the pronouncements of liberals against conservatives.
I’ve not observed anyone on FR’s Rel Forum fitting any of the descriptions in that post even to a minor degree.
Reads to me like another set of RC edifice fantasies.
And not remotely pretty ones, either.
Well, if you don't care, why stick around?
You said: Reads to me like another set of RC edifice fantasies.
But, as usual Quix-draw, you are wrong. But at least you are consistently wrong. I’ll give you credit for that. But then again, the only reason that you are consistent is that just keep repeating the same tired falsehoods.
Arguing from silence
seems to be one of some RC’s
—rubber dogmas?
—rubber encyclicals?
—rubber sound systems?
LOL.
I guess my posts upset you so much you cannot respond to the arguments in them.
If you do not like the style of my posts, I suggest you not read them.
Until you get off your latest kick I might as well tell you I’m not going to be reading yours. Have another beer.
And for the Protestants....rubber rooms?
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