Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
Sounds, Mary, like enough
irony
to build another USS Ronald Reagan.
No, not hostility, just frustration and perhaps weariness.
I don’t think we need that...LOL.
Yeah, really...pot, meet kettle.
I think we forget that our children and grandchildren, etc. suffer from our sins from 4 to 10 generations. Sexual sins are 10 generations unless they are repented of and renounced. They don’t HAVE to be passed down.
Does she ever say UFFDA? My mother did, a lot!
“Some Catholics are Christians and some are not. Depends on their relationship to the Lord Jesus Christ. I think we prottys have all said that.”
Thursday, July 03, 2008 9:06:38 PM · 11,137 of 11,644
Marysecretary to Petronski
“You are the one who is failing to understand because of what you’ve been taught/indoctrinated. Study on your own. Learn more of what God is really saying to you through His Word.”
Thursday, July 03, 2008 9:02:11 PM · 11,133 of 11,644
Marysecretary to Petronski
We aren’t lying. We’re trying to tell you the truth but you refuse it.
Thursday, July 03, 2008 8:45:13 PM · 11,115 of 11,644
Marysecretary to Petronski
How blind are those who WILL NOT see
Wednesday, July 02, 2008 12:26:50 AM · 10,920 of 11,644
Marysecretary to Manfred the Wonder Dawg
The way most of these FR catholics react when given the truth of the gospel, one could be tempted to let them live in their heresies and miss heaven. Arghhhh.
And so on.
“I don’t think we need that...LOL.”
I guess not. You people have already set yourselves up as Lord of Judgment.
I won’t judge you although I have reservations.
Pentacostalism is a hideously emotional psychological flogging.
Maybe this will help.
“Many within these faiths cannot even comprehend the situation in which they exist, or the abuses that they have deadened themselves to tolerate. Many current Pentecostals have written us, stating they could match horror stories with our supporters, yet they still “accept the truth” of their faith. They don’t even see the sad realities of such statements — the truth being that in traditional Christian faiths, church isn’t about tolerating manipulations, abusive pastors, sideshow behaviors, or restrictive legalism — it’s about expressing your love for a Savior, receiving spiritual nourishment, and . . . above all . . . feeling safe and loved. How can anyone feel “safe and loved” when they’re constantly in fear of losing their salvation, or not getting the “total” blessings that God has to offer (as many Pentecostals/Charismatics do — regardless of whether or not current one is will admit to it)? Many of these people will say that “Pentecostals are human,” and that anything that happens in their churches could happen at a church down the street. The sad reality is that these things often happen in Pentecostal/Charismatic churches...”
The sad reality is that these things often happen in the !!!!TRADITION!!!! encrusted RC edifice ... seemingly, by design.
Sounds like that site fits the famous RC edifice
epithet with long pointy fingered . . .
“HATE SITE! HATE SITE! HATE SITE!”
I am sooo glad I’m pentecostal and not Catholic.
Do you really expect Catholics to nod at your calumnies?
We can absorb a lot, consider Christ’s silence, but not the constant attacks on our faith that bear no reality to Catholicism.
You say your practices allow for individual interpretations of the bible? ~But only if those interpretations agree with what you preach.
You edifice is a house of cards.
“I am sooo glad I’m pentecostal and not Catholic.”
Then you can tell the Judge on your day of arrival how you judged others for Him because you are a pentacostal.
Well, s/he doesn’t have a clue about what a true Holy Spirit filled congregation is all about. True, there are abberations in some, but the ones I’m familiar with love the Word, Worship, Each other. Freedom! This is where God put me and it’s where I’m staying. Trying to bring the truth to these folks is impossible. They like their prison too much.
“HATE SITE! HATE SITE! HATE SITE!””
Trying to show you the truth of your edifice built on emotional flogging is not hate.
“Well, s/he doesn’t have a clue about what a true Holy Spirit filled congregation is all about...”
There you go again. Judge of another’s soul.
I hope you can explain to Him how you usurped His absolute right and domain.
I’m not judging your soul. Only God can do that. I’m concerned about a Catholic’s soul if you depend on baptism, Mary, and other factors which are not salvific. Why don’t you consider that many of us here DO care about your souls and we try to speaka the truth to you regarding what you consider to be salvific? None of us wants you to miss heaven. It may sound judgemental to you and I’m sorry you feel that way, but we see things in the Catholic church that just aren’t true. Baptism won’t save you; works can’t save you; the Eucharist can’t save you. Only faith in the Lord Jesus Christ can do that and many of you don’t believe in sola fide either. Sad for us to see that.
How silly!
Me too.
Somehow I just knew you would...LOL.
No, by the time it came to the relatives that I knew and remember, they had long ago, stopped speaking in anything other than English...
A little anecdote...my hubby was raised by his Sicilian grandparents who came to America, from Sicily when they were already married with a child...and they always spoke Sicilian at home, tho they encouraged their children to learn and speak English...now the hubby, their first grandchild, was raised by these grandparents, so naturally he was raised speaking Sicilian...of course, he learned English, by playing with his neighborhood friends, and in school...but Sicilian remained his native tongue, and of course, he spoke it fluently, while his grandparents were still alive, as that is primarily all they understood...
Of course, he spoke English flawlessly as well....he was bi-lingual...after we were married for a few months, my husband became very ill, with extremely high fevers, and he was delirious...when he spoke, I could not understand him at all...I thought he was just speaking gibberish, due to his high fever...but then I would every so often recognize a word or phrase here or there..then I realized in his delirium, he was speaking his first native tongue, Sicilian...he also used to talk a lot in his sleep...but there again, it was always in Sicilian...heck, I could never figure out what he was talking about...
Today with his grandparents gone, he no longer uses his Sicilian, tho he still retains, a pretty good understanding of the language, when it is spoken...
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.