Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
It’s not doing a heck of a lot for your folks’ cause either. Whenever someone doesn’t like what we say, they call in the mods...
Was it Father McNutt who left the church and married? One of the healing priests who was pretty famous during the Charismatic Movement did that. I remember Father McNutt. Interesting man and a true believer.
INDEED.
Some Catholics are Christians and some are not. Depends on their relationship to the Lord Jesus Christ. I think we prottys have all said that.
Gotta be careful now . . . about how much TRUTH that club can handle hereon.
I wasn’t there but my husband and my sons were hunting with a group of friends. A man with about 7 young boys camped near them, they were from some kind of group home and they were hunting because they really needed the food but no one was an experienced hunter and they only had one deer tag.
Nothing was said but everyone with a tag in my husband’s group got their deer and everyone of them gave them to the guy from the group home. They came home feeling really great, they had a lot of fun and got to do something good to boot.
Judith Anne, I would be wasting my time and my blood pressure trying to fill in any gaps for someone who is so against anything outside of the Catholic Church. I don’t have his book available to me right now. It’s packed away in my cellar, the black hole of Calcutta.
Of course I do, little fella...
Are you trying to insult?
Guess what I just found on the internet? A CD of PASTOR Wright’s 2002 conference for $39.00 (plus shipping and handling).
So, let’s see, that’s $24.99 + $39.00 = $63.99 plus separate shipping and handling for each.
PS, PASTOR Wright has no doctorate.
My family on both sides has been in America forever, or so it seems...but my hubby’s fathers parents came from Sicily when they were in their late 20’s or maybe even their 30’s, sometime during the very early 1900’s...his grandparents never learned very much English tho, just enough to get along...but they made sure that their children, all four of them, learned English, and got as much education as they could...they really were an almost illiterate, uneducated couple, when they landed in America, but they were determined, that their children should be literate, educated, and speaking English...their 4 children did not disappoint them..
That’s a great story...I bet those people really enjoyed their meals, off that hunt...Venison is soooo tasty...
Or then there is the thing using great big boxes to make forts with...once we had a new full sized refrigerator and a full sized freezer delivered to the house...they came from the warehouse, I suppose, as they were in these huge boxes...my boys got so excited at the prospect of what they could do with such huge boxes...once the delivery men, got those boxes off of the appliances, the boys took them out into the backyard and set to work, making windows and such in the sides of the box...they had some great fun with those box forts...kids are so great, in that they can let their imaginations run wild, and have fun with the simplest of items...
*wince* Be certain to use a nylon belted tire... the steel belted can cut their gums, and it makes them cranky... ;)
I remember taking shoe boxes and cutting out windows and making doll houses out of them. I still love boxes to this day! Boxes are FUN, especially those bigger ones. Kids love to have things to play with that show some imagination.
My parents came over from Norway: Dad in 1917 with his mother, and Mom in 1938 to marry Dad. Her aunt and uncles settled here as well, in the same town. They learned English as soon as they could. Neither graduated from high school. I was the first one of the family who did and the only one who went on to school. I love being Norwegian. I visited there once with mom before she died. Wish I could go again. Yes, I believe immigrants did want their children educated and able to assimilate. It seems to be so different now, especially with the Latino population coming from Mexico...at least the illegals.
I don’t care what he charges for his tapes. Everyone does that when they have conferences. Please bug someone else.
Gee, Petronski, is everything you disagree with an insult?
Certainly no more than you both do...LOL.
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