Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
Bye bye then...sheesh indeed..
***The whole thing is BIBLICALLY AND VERY EXPERIENTIALLY EMPIRICALLY BASED.***
Which, right there, tells me that empirical science is not a strong point in this charlatan’s sick exploitation of suffering people.
***Bye bye then...sheesh indeed..***
Love means that Quix never really says goodbye.
Cool.
***My kids used to “camp out”. I let them go about a tenth of a mile away one night (1980ish), I could watch their fire. The next morning they came home and told me that they ate a rattlesnake!
Some illegals came upon their camp and they had a rattlesnake for dinner so my kids shared their beanie weinies and spaghettios with them and the illegals shared their rattlesnake. That was back in the day that illegals weren’t scary.***
Yeah. People are people. Immigrants are immigrants. My father was an immigrant and so am I.
For a number of characters, they'd need to buy a super tanker worth of civility and teachableness to be able to rise up to the level of the most rudimentary understanding of what we try to say. Given such an evident willful lack of such . . . rain on em. Let em enjoy their pain and sicknesses.
Not my preference nor heart . . . but at some point . . .
Good fer you. I don’t care what up.
WRONG AGAIN.
I’ve been in denominations populated by such for 61 years.
Pastor Wright is quite unique.
Fantastic.
So you know how to get a headache.
***Sometimes I wonder why we waste the typing energy. ***
I suspect that it is because you are wrong, that you know that you are wrong, and that you are hoping beyond hope that somehow you will be vindicated in your misbelief.
***Given such an evident willful lack of such . . . rain on em. Let em enjoy their pain and sicknesses.***
We are the members of the Church of Jesus Christ. We bring the Gospel to the heretic, the apostate and the heathen. You are welcome.
***Fantastic.
So you know how to get a headache.***
Let’s bring them the Tylenol of the Gospel.
***Pastor Wright is quite unique.***
So is Pastor Jeremiah Wright. So is Louis Farrahkan.
So were Hitler and Mussolini and Stalin and Lenin and Pol Pot and Mao if you wish to carry this description to its logical end.
RIght.
The scary part was in reference to what is going on at the border now. One of our employee’s grandson was murdered last weekend, just one of 13 people murdered that weekend. They found a bunch of beheaded bodies in the trunk of a car during the week.
I used to have no fear but I do now. Back before the ‘86 amnesty I think we were famous because they all knew my husband by the nickname some illegal gave him and they would knock on the door and ask “Is this the house of Baby” and when you said yes, they’d ask for food.
I remember back when I was "thin-skinned" I used to wonder where all the civility and manners of the protties had gone, because none was being evidenced toward anything remotely connected with Catholicism.
I remember all the remarks thrown my way. I remember the RM telling me that the thin-skinned were the disrupters. Now I see what he/she meant. Whining will not advance the protestant cause one tiny bit.
***I remember all the remarks thrown my way. I remember the RM telling me that the thin-skinned were the disrupters. Now I see what he/she meant. Whining will not advance the protestant cause one tiny bit.***
Quite so. We have a Presbyterian whiner who pings the RM on a regular basis; a few others who occasionally do so.
We cannot go running to the mods. It, for instance, is beneath us, as well as ineffectual. Let the heretic, the heathen and the apostate whine and cry. We are Christians, heirs of the martyrs in the arena. We ought to be able to handle a little effluvia from the Protestants.
Did I really say that I was not a Catholic 3-4 times?....I thought it was just twice....well, being only human, I could be wrong...I hardly threw it up to Quix....Quix made mention of the fact that it was just the Catholics who were skeptical of this Rev.,not the Protestants...since I was skeptical, like the Catholics, I thought Quix was considering me a Catholic, and I sought to correct that...nothing wrong with getting the facts straight, is there?
I may be ‘wrong again’ only in someone else’s opinion, and since we all have our own differing opinions, we pick and chose which opinions, to adhere to...Rev. Wright, may be unique, but then we are all unique, so that is saying nothing new....each of us is a unique, but it does not follow from that, that we are also healers...it will take a bit more than calling someone ‘unique’, to convince either myself or many others here, that Rev. Wright is a true healer...
So I have seen...
One time we were camping on the Mississippi River, and across the field from us a whole large group of people pulled into camp, over the 3 day Labor Day weekend...it was an older man and his wife, their kids and in-laws and a whole troupe of children, of varying ages....at that time, my older boy was around 7, and there were several boys in this group around my sons age....my son joined up with them, and soon they were all playing...
Now, it seemed obvious, that this whole large group of people had very little money...the older parents had a very old raggedy RV for their use, the tents that all the others were using were old, and faded and worn, and they were all kind of poorly dressed....so when they invited my son to have dinner with them, I was hesitant to let him, because I was not sure that they had enough food for themselves, much less another hungry boy to feed...but they assured us, they would welcome him to dinner, so I told my son to go on ahead, and eat with them..
When he returned, after dinner, and after some more evening playtime, I asked him what he had for dinner...he frowned, and said, “Boiled poatoes, boiled cabbage, and bread”...now, I knew my son hated boiled potatoes, boiled cabbage, tho he did like bread...he assured me, he ate all his dinner, without a fuss and thanked those kind people for the meal...
Luckily I had saved my son, some hot dogs and hamburgers from our bar-b-que that we had enjoyed...he gobbled them down...
And then he invited his friends to join us for dinner the next nite...we had chicken, and since I always brought enough food to feed an army we had plenty, for our guests....the kids said it was a treat for them, because they knew that their current nite dinner was again, going to be, “Boiled potatoes, boiled cabbage, and bread”....I guess that is what the family ate for three nights straight...
It was quite the learning experience for my son....he pondered that family and their unique dinners, for a long time after that....
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.