Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
***I have told people in my family over and over and over again that I love them. I have those 3 little words memorized, I say them to Jesus, I guess those are vain words too.***
Get thee behind me, Reggie’s satan.
Please strive for accuracy and honesty.
***Don’t forget the oft repeated and never ceasing:
“Holy, Holy, Holy, is the Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come.”***
Pagan!!!! Leper outcast unclean. Pagan!!!!
You must sacrifice your theology and your morals and your complete soul to the altar of the great Reggie Almighty before you will be mock-free.
***So now it is a physical, defined illness that makes you pagan.***
Lunatic fringe
I know you’re out there
You’re in hiding
And you hold your meetings
We can hear you coming
We know what you’re after
We’re wise to you this time
We won’t let you kill the laughter.
Lunatic fringe
In the twilight’s last gleaming
This is open season
But you won’t get too far
We know you’ve got to blame someone
For your own confusion
But we’re on guard this time
Against your final solution
We can hear you coming
(We can hear you coming)
No you’re not going to win this time
We can hear the footsteps
(We can hear the footsteps)
Way out along the walkway
Lunatic fringe
We know you’re out there
But in these new dark ages
There will still be light
An eye for an eye;
Well before you go under...
Can you feel the resistance?
Can you feel the thunder?
I can certainly feel something. The lord of this world is the father of lies.
***”repeat memorized prayers over and over like the heathen...”
Do you see it now?
Totally irrelevant! (MarkBsnr) “Is that what you mean by repeating like a heathen?”
Where do you see the words “memorized prayers” in the above?***
I see them, well, in the above. The first line, actually. Are you okay?
***Not true. I pick my spots.***
I prefer stripes.
And a little less hypocrisy.
Some people, Mark, can’t even keep track of their own arguments.
His answer to the stringent requirements for proclaiming a miraculous healing by the church is to ask why there are no regenerate amputated limbs. Pastor Wright doesn’t claim that either, so the question is moot.
And it would be nice to know just who, on this thread, is qualified to diagnose Asperger’s in another poster. I bet I know who ISN’T.
***Some people, Mark, can’t even keep track of their own arguments.
His answer to the stringent requirements for proclaiming a miraculous healing by the church is to ask why there are no regenerate amputated limbs. Pastor Wright doesn’t claim that either, so the question is moot.
And it would be nice to know just who, on this thread, is qualified to diagnose Asperger’s in another poster. I bet I know who ISN’T.***
Old Reggie is a fine gentleman with a good heart. He, as well, exhibits irrational anti Catholic hatred. One presumes that he was a exceptionally poorly catechized Catholic growing up, but I will defer to him as to his experiences, even though he will not defer to me as to mine.
There are many people who experience Aspergers, as well as those who merely submit to dementia and senility. I am not saying that OR is experiencing any of them; I just wonder about the soundness of his posts or at least their continuity. Perhaps he can enlighten us.
***Once is enough. He hears.***
Once is enough eh? Once a day? Once a week? Once a month? Once a year?
St. Paul tells us to pray continuously. The folks in the early Church prayed continously for St. Peter to be freed. Would your majesty be able to inform us as to frequency that would be acceptable to the the Lord God Almighty?
***You must sacrifice your theology and your morals and your complete soul to the altar of the great Reggie Almighty before you will be mock-free.
What a completely idiotic statement.***
Mock away, sir.
Compared to that which the statement responded to, it is a model of brilliant insight.
***I see them, well, in the above. The first line, actually. Are you okay?
Of course they were not your words. Go back to your sandbox.***
I fear that you are not well. Is there anyone we can call to help you if that is the case?
Well, I’m going back to painting my cottage. I have the back and half of one side done. Not bad for an old lady.
So the answer is no.
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