If the "big boys" haven't told you what it means it is better to pretend it is not in your Bible.
Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
Ditto your second.
Now if he could only educate you.
Catechism Of The Catholic Church
85 "The task of giving an authentic interpretation of the Word of God, whether in its written form or in the form of Tradition, has been entrusted to the living teaching office of the Church alone. Its authority in this matter is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ." This means that the task of interpretation has been entrusted to the bishops in communion with the successor of Peter, the Bishop of Rome.
So I’ve noticed! I’ve never paid that much attention before to all the differences between protestants, Catholics, Calvinists, etc. Very interesting.
Shame on you...LOL.
I think it was the gospel according to Mary Magdelene, Chapter 12, Book 3.
***There are a few who have such an unreasoned hatred for Calvin and Calvinism that they see them in their nightmares. Their “closet monster” is Calvin.***
Interesting statement.
We consider him about as we consider Joseph Smith.
In the OT, He took out around 50,000 Israelites at one time. Not angry? He IS a jealous God, wanting to be worshipped and not to share it with other idols we tend to worship right along with Him. God is a God of love, but He is also a God of justice and one day we will see that. His judgement on America is here...economy will soon bottom out, all the floods and storms where there have never been any or many before, oil shortages, etc. All this is part of the coming judgement. Hold onto your seat...
***I can’t speak for Dr. Eckleburg but I imagine your first “request” went into the trash pile where it belongs. ***
Requests for Scriptural defense of an unScriptural doctrine belong in the trash pile, do they?
I trust that the fleas are not too numerous so as to affect your typing, or at least the quality of it.
***Yes Petronski, to his credit, acknowledged they are two different words.
Now if he could only educate you.***
Oh he has. I am even learning from the likes of you. A Heaven sent opportunity for me.
Oh, brother. And if they’re wrong????? Wonder if anyone ever considers that possibility? Saaaaddddd.
John 6:
63 It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh 22 is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
Catechism Of The Catholic Church
85 “The task of giving an authentic interpretation of the Word of God, whether in its written form or in the form of Tradition, has been entrusted to the living teaching office of the Church alone. Its authority in this matter is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ.” This means that the task of interpretation has been entrusted to the bishops in communion with the successor of Peter, the Bishop of Rome.
And?
It means some believed in the Assumption though the belief wasn't required until 1950.
In recent history many Catholics, including Popes, believe Mary is "Co-redemptrix" and the like. It is not (yet) Catholic Teaching.
Would you be accurate in saying the Church believes Mary is "Co-Redemptrix"?
It is one thing to know what it means, but quite another to ask YOU what YOU think it means.
I was merely trying to demonstrate the fallacy of the notion that the Assumption was “invented” in 1950 by showing that it was familiar to the Church for centuries.
I see that you strongly heed the words of Dylan Thomas.
If you like, I’ll post the pertinent verses.
I don’t belong to a hate league. Can you send me the address for the one you like the most?
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