Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
They also use this belief that God hated Esau to justify their belief in selective salvation.
This is what happens when someone uses their own personal interpretation of Scripture and then teaches it as truth.
Esau thrived and that is obvious from the Bible but 2 little verses, taken out of context are used to prove that there are elect and non-elect.
It's all about YOUR INTENT. You believed you were wishing something on me quite horrible.
Judith Anne, I am with you here about that post...perhaps the one making that post, would care to explain it further for the slow-witted(that would be me)...because I am not sure exactly what is meant in that post...
By the way, Judith Anne, I am very glad to see you back, and I am quite sure, many many others, feel the same as I, regarding your return...
Mark 7:15.
A lot of things are coming from within.
I try not to waste time with rhetorical questions like yours.
Answered.
Fruits of the Spirit.
How can it possibly be rhetorical? Do you adhere to everything in the chapter or not? A simple yes or no will suffice.
It's just that a correct answer given according to the evidence of Scripture takes more time than the simple-minded responses from Catholics on the order of "sez you!" and "you're so mean!"
Thanks for all that vast Scriptural rebuttal.
This is about YOU proving man has no free will.
It can’t be done.
Because Petronski and MarkBsnr have told us they hope for it.
Not to mention all the time it takes to Scripture-google a few of the words so an answer can be cut and pasted.
I was just wondering about that commandment from Christ that a person must leave their gift at the altar, and go and make peace with their brother, THEN come back and make an offering to God.
So far, that has not been addressed. But never mind, I understand it, and faithfully observe it in the breech.
San Francisco cereal, you mean?
Simple: if the issue of believing the entirety of First Timothy has never come up in reality.
ROFL! Took me by surprise! :D
No, it is not!
Do you yourself conform to ALL of Saint Paul's mandates in the second chapter of his First Epistle to Timothy? YES or NO.
I meant to go on. In Luke, Jesus says; “If anyone comes to me and does not HATE his father and mother, his wife and children, his brother and sisters –yes, even his own life –he cannot be my disciple.”
So we should disregard one of the Ten Commandments? Then there is Jesus’ Commandment that we love God above all and our neighbors as ourselves should be thrown by the wayside?
If we disregard those 2 things do we also disregard the one about loving God above all?
I’d hate to be a Calvinist and think that most of my family and friends are probably going to hell.
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