CONTRARY!
doing my best
to match the
responses
to the
ABSURDITIES TO THE MAX
postings
I'm responding to!
is admiring
the obvious
patience
He's poured
into me,
evidenced
thereby!
Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
Prayer draws us closer to God and sanctifies our lives.
Prayer is not the lottery.
That's not quite what happened. In fact, on the face of it, it is a lie of omission, because it OMITs the two verses quoted that God hated Esau. However, you do not address all the earthly wealth, posterity, and blessings Esau received from the hand of God.
Protestants rarely reply when their blatant egregious falsehoods are pointed out, however, and I do not expect anything different in this evil instance.
You tell me God blessed Esau to such an extent that you desire what God has given him.
Didn't say that. I marveled to MarkBsnr that Esau was given an entire chapter of blessings by name and expressed a wish that MB and I could share just one verse of God's blessings by name.
I actually thought she’d feel remorse, try to get it deleted.
Nope. She seems proud.
Was that too easy? If so, forgive me the fact it's so much fun to fish in a barrel.
It would be amazing if that could be demonstrated here on FR, but I don't expect it. Probably couldn't be demonstrated anywhere.
If the post made any sense, that would be nice. Who is the laughing donkey?
Now, are you interested in showing me where the Catholic Church differs with your post?
Or do you just want to cast another curse?
p.s. I thought said you were leaving Free Republic.
***But you didn’t answer the question.
Does God know who will receive faith in Christ, and who will not, and yet does God create both those categories of men anyway?***
Your phrasing of the question assumes that predestination and foreknowledge is the same thing. Why don’t you phrase it as if they aren’t? Then I can answer with a yes or no.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
Hey, if that's where your treasure lies, go for it.
You chase the dream of living like Esau; me and mine will be content to be counted with Jacob.
Yes. I said that. I asked to have my membership closed, and the person I asked declined.
Any further information is none of your business. You might wonder how many different posters, some lurkers, FReepmailed me and asked me to return.
Now, again, the answer makes no sense, either to wagglebee or me.
Address the issues, if possible.
Of course. Thank you.
The disappointment at your decision to remain is noted.
LOL
***lolol. God, please do not “reward me” like Esau.***
Can’t handle the numerous saucy wives and the uncountable descendants?
***Regarding our Scriptural rebuttal to your vacuous preaching of Rome’s specious interpretation of the Word, you’re welcome***
My preaching is vacuous? My, oh my. Your Scriptural rebuttals usually do not pertain the subject at hand, whatever that subject is. My preaching, such as is it, reflects not only Scripture, including the Gospels, but also the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ.
You see, the Reformed do serve a purpose for those in the house of God.
***it will only benefit you insofar as God will turn you from your pagan practices and refocus your mind on Christ alone.***
Given the traditions and the history of the Reformed that do not reflect Scripture and are not created with the authority of the Church, I think you might want to reconsider who the pagan really is.
Nowhere in Scripture are we told to pray to anyone other than the Triune God.
This is one reason why the RCC had to cook up the fever-dream of purgatory -- to give men more reason to think their salvation depended on their own good works and even on the good works of other people!
Supposedly, the more prayers said for a person in purgatory, the quicker they get out.
Ludicrous paganism.
Our salvation depends not on our good works or on our friends' good works, but on the work of Jesus Christ on the cross alone.
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