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LDS Leaders Define Their Concept of JESUS CHRIST [OPEN]
UTLM ^ | Sandra Tanner

Posted on 05/28/2008 10:23:47 PM PDT by P-Marlowe

LDS Leaders Define Their Concept of
JESUS CHRIST

By Sandra Tanner

 

Often Mormons will say that they believe in the same Jesus as standard Christianity. However, their leaders’ definition is very different. The current president of the Mormon Church, Gordon B. Hinckley, made a very telling comment about Jesus Christ in a talk in Geneva, Switzerland, June 6, 1998. The Deseret News reported:

In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints "do not believe in the traditional Christ. No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fulness of Times.

He together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages." (Deseret News, Church News section, Salt Lake City, Utah, week ending June 20, 1998, p. 7)

Mormonism teaches that somewhere in eternity past God and his wife first existed as mortals on a different earth, overseen by their Heavenly Father and Mother.

This mortal couple died, received resurrected bodies, and eventually achieved godhood. They then procreated the millions of spirit children that would be sent to this earth as mortals. Thus God is part of an eternal chain of gods procreating spirit children for different worlds. Joseph Smith preached:

God himself, was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!...it is necessary we should understand the character and being of God and how He came to be so; for I am going to tell you how God came to be God. (History of the Church, vol. 6, p. 305)

The Mormon Church teaches that men, gods, angels and devils are all the same species. Thus both Jesus and Lucifer are literally our elder brothers. As men are viewed as being the same species as God and Jesus they have the same potential to achieve godhood. Brigham Young preached:

We have a Father; He is in heaven; ...He says that we are His children. ... we actually believe that God the Father is our heavenly Father, that we are His children; and we believe that Jesus Christ is our elder brother—that he is actually the Son of our Father and that he is the Savior of the world, and was appointed to this before the foundations of this earth were laid. (Journal of Discourses, vol. 13, pp. 235-256, February 20, 1870)

On another occasion Brigham Young declared:

He [Jehovah] was the Son of our Heavenly Father, as we are the sons of our earthly fathers. God is the Father of our spirits, which are clothed upon by fleshly bodies, begotten for us by our earthly fathers. Jesus is our elder brother spirit clothed upon with an earthly body begotten by the Father of our spirits. (Journal of Discourses, vol. 10, p. 2, September 28, 1862)

Past LDS Pres. Joseph F. Smith wrote:

Among the spirit children of Elohim the firstborn was and is Jehovah or Jesus Christ to whom all others are juniors .... There is no impropriety, therefore, in speaking of Jesus Christ as the elder brother of the rest of humankind.... Let it not be forgotten, however, that He is essentially greater than any and all others by reason (1) of His seniority as the oldest or firstborn; (2) of His unique status in the flesh as the offspring of a mortal mother and of

an immortal, or resurrected and glorified, Father; (3) of His selection and foreordination as the one and only Redeemer and Savior of the race; and (4) of His transcendent sinlessness. (Improvement Era, vol. 19, pp. 941-942, June 30, 1916)

On February 8, 1857 Brigham Young explained how God came to be God and fathered Jesus:

Now to the facts in the case; all the difference between Jesus Christ and any other man that ever lived on the earth, from the days of Adam until now, is simply this, the Father, after He had once been in the flesh, and lived as we live, obtained His exaltation, attained to thrones, gained the ascendancy over principalities and powers, and had the knowledge and power to create—to bring forth and organize the elements upon natural principles. This He did after His ascension, or His glory, or His eternity, and was actually classed with the Gods, with the beings who create, with those who have kept the celestial law while in the flesh, and again obtained their bodies. Then He was prepared to commence the work of creation, as the Scriptures teach. It is all here in the Bible; I am not telling you a word but what is contained in that book.

Things were first created spiritually; the Father actually begat the spirits, and they were brought forth and lived with Him. Then He commenced the work of creating earthly tabernacles, precisely as He had been created in this flesh himself, by partaking of the course material that was organized and composed this earth, until His system was charged with it, consequently the tabernacles of His children were organized from the coarse materials of this earth.

When the time came that His first-born, the Saviour, should come into the world and take a tabernacle, the Father came Himself and favoured that spirit [Mary] with a tabernacle instead of letting any other man do it. The Saviour was begotten by the Father of His spirit, by the same Being who is the Father of our spirits, and that is all the organic difference between Jesus Christ and you and me. And a difference there is between our Father and us consists in that He has gained His exaltation, and has obtained eternal lives. The principle of eternal lives is an eternal existence, eternal duration, eternal exaltation. Endless are His kingdoms, endless His thrones and His dominions, and endless are His posterity; they never will cease to multiply from this time henceforth and forever. (Journal of Discourses, vol. 4, pp. 217-218)

Apostle George Q. Cannon preached that Christ, Satan and all the mortals born on this earth are actually brothers and sisters from a pre-earth life:

We are here to be tested and tried. There is a war between Satan and God. We are brethren and sisters of Satan as well as of Jesus. It may be startling doctrine to many to say this; but Satan is our brother. Jesus is our brother. We are the children of God. God begot us in the spirit in the eternal worlds. This fight that I speak of arose, as we are told, over the question as to how man should work out his earthly probation in a tabernacle of flesh and bones and obtain redemption. Satan differed from God, and he rebelled. We are told in the scriptures that he drew after him one third of the family of God. They thought his plan better than that of the Savior Jesus Christ. From that time until the present he has been struggling to destroy the plans of Jehovah, and to seduce the children of men—his brothers and sisters—from their allegiance to God. (Apostle George Q. Cannon, March 11th, 1894, Collected Discourses, compiled by Brian Stuy, vol. 4, p. 23,)

 

JESUS ACHIEVED GODHOOD

Speaking in 1949, LDS leader Milton R. Hunter, of the First Council of the Seventy, stated:

You and I were sons and daughters of our Eternal Parents in the spirit world. In fact, all the people in this world were of that family, and Jesus Christ was the Firstborn.

During his pre-mortal life Jesus Christ rose to the status of Godhood. At that time he was foreordained to be the Savior of this world. Father Abraham was privileged to see in vision the grand council in heaven that was held prior to the peopling of this earth, and he saw, as the Lord showed him, "many of the noble and great ones." (LDS Conference Report, October 1949, p. 69)

Apostle James E. Talmage taught:

Through the sure word of revealed truth we learn of the actual relationship between God and man, and that this is the literal relationship of parent to child. The spirits of men are the offspring of Deity, born in the antemortal world and endowed with the Divine birthright of eternal development and progression, in which course of advancement the life on earth is but a stage. ... To become perfect as God is perfect is to attain the state, power, dignity, and authority of godship. Plainly there is a way provided by which the child of God may follow the footsteps of the Father, and in time—sometime in the distant eternities—be as that Divine Father is. Even as Christ, the Only Begotten Son of God in the flesh, endured the experiences of mortality, passed the portals of death and became a resurrected Being, so the Father before Him had trodden the same path of progression from manhood to Godhood, and today sits enthroned in the heavens

by right of achievement. He is the Eternal Father and with Him, crowned with glory and majesty, is the eternal Mother. They twain are the parents of the spirit-children for whose schooling in the lessons of mortality this earth was framed. ... Eternal exaltation is the assured attainment of those who obey in its fulness the whole law of the Gospel of Christ; theirs it is to become like unto their Celestial Parents.

"Then shall they be Gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be Gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them." (Doctrine and Covenants

132:20). (The Essential James E. Talmage, edited by James P. Harris, pp. 132-133)

 

LITERAL SON OF GOD

While Mormon leaders assert that they believe in the virgin birth they have changed the definition. The LDS Church teaches that God the Father has a physical, tangible, resurrected body and that God literally sired Jesus in the same physical sense that any other man begets a child. Consequently "the virgin birth" is redefined to mean Mary had intercourse with a god, not a mortal, in order to literally conceive the baby Jesus. In a 1916 doctrinal statement by the LDS First Presidency we read:

1. "Father" as Literal Parent ... God the Eternal Father, whom we designate by the exalted name-title "Elohim," is the literal Parent of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and of the spirits of the human race. Elohim is the Father in every sense in which Jesus Christ is so designated, and distinctively He is the Father of spirits. ... Jesus Christ is the Son of Elohim both as spiritual and bodily offspring; that is to say, Elohim is literally the Father of the spirit of Jesus Christ and also of the body in which Jesus Christ performed His mission in the flesh, and which body died on the cross and was afterward taken up by the process of resurrection, and is now the immortalized tabernacle of the eternal spirit of our Lord and Savior. (Encyclopedia of Mormonism, vol. 4, pp. 1670-1671)

In a Christmas message to the general membership, the LDS First Presidency wrote:

A CHRISTMAS GREETING
FROM THE FIRST PRESIDENCY

The Latter-day Saints unite with the people of every creed and tongue and race in the general commemoration of the day observed throughout Christendom as the anniversary of the God-Man's earthly birth. ... We bow to Him as the veritable Son of the living God in the fullest sense of the hallowed term. As Mary was His saintly mother, so the Mighty God was His everlasting and literal Father. He was "the only begotten" of Deity, in the flesh, to die that man may live. This we once more affirm and declare as a glorious truth and a fundamental of "Mormon" faith. (Messages of the First Presidency, Vol. 4, pp. 318-319)

Apostle Bruce R. McConkie explained:

God the Father is a perfected, glorified, holy Man, an immortal Personage. And Christ was born into the world as the literal Son of this Holy Being; he was born in the same personal, real, and literal sense that any mortal son is born to a mortal father. There is nothing figurative about his paternity; he was begotten, conceived and born in the normal and natural course of events, for he is the Son of God, and that designation means what it says. (Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce McConkie, p. 742)

Apostle McConkie explained that there was nothing figurative about Mary’s conception:

And so it is with the Eternal Father and the mortal birth of the Eternal Son. The Father is a Father is a Father; he is not a spirit essence or nothingness to which the name Father is figuratively applied. And the Son is a Son is a Son; he is not some transient emanation from a divine essence, but a literal, living offspring of an actual Father. ... There is nothing figurative or hidden or beyond comprehension in our Lord's coming into mortality. He is the Son of God in the same sense and way that we are the sons of mortal fathers. (The Promised Messiah, pp. 468-469)

In the Encyclopedia of Mormonism, under the heading JESUS CHRIST we read:

He was able to accomplish his unique ministry—a ministry of reconciliation and salvation—because of who and what he was. President Ezra Taft Benson stated, "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints proclaims that Jesus Christ is the Son of God in the most literal sense. The body in which He performed His mission in the flesh was fathered by that same Holy Being we worship as God, our Eternal Father. Jesus was not the son of Joseph, nor was He begotten by the Holy Ghost. He is the Son of the Eternal Father!" ... From Mary, a mortal woman, Jesus inherited mortality, including the capacity to die. From his exalted Father he inherited immortality, the capacity to live forever. (Encyclopedia of Mormonism, vol. 2, pp.724-725)

On another page of the same volume we read: The fact of Jesus’ being the literal Son of God in the flesh is crucial to the ATONEMENT,...

For Latter-day Saints, the paternity of Jesus is not obscure. He was the literal, biological son of an immortal, tangible Father and Mary, a mortal woman (see Virgin Birth). Jesus is the only person born who deserves the title "the Only Begotten Son of God" ... He was not the son of the Holy Ghost; it was only through the Holy Ghost that the power of the Highest overshadowed Mary (Luke 1:35; 1 Ne. 11:19). (Encyclopedia of Mormonism, vol. 2, p. 729)

Joseph Fielding Smith wrote:

Throughout the scriptures he is spoken of as the Son of God. The story of his birth is plain and free from mystery, insofar as the fact is made that he is in very deed the Son of God. We are emphatically informed that he was begotten by the Father. He recognized God as his Father. He referred to himself as being the Son of God. This is not a mystery. ... It is true of Jesus Christ, as it is of any other son, he was begotten in the image of his Father and in his case his Father is the Eternal God, and the scriptures inform us that Jesus was the express image of his Father. (The Restoration of All Things, p. 61)

Apostle McConkie declared that Jesus was begotten in the normal way:

And so, in the final analysis it is the faithful saints, those who have testimonies of the truth and divinity of this great latter-day work, who declare our Lord's generation to the world. Their testimony is that Mary's son is God's Son; that he was conceived and begotten in the normal way; that he took upon himself mortality by the natural birth processes; that he inherited the power of mortality from his mother and the power of immortality from his Father—in consequence of all of which he was able to work out the infinite and eternal atonement. (The Promised Messiah, Bruce McConkie, pp. 472-473)

Apostle James E. Talmage wrote:

That Child to be born of Mary was begotten of Elohim, the Eternal Father, not in violation of natural law but in accordance with a higher manifestation thereof; and, the offspring from that association of supreme sanctity, celestial Sireship, and pure though mortal maternity, was of right to be called the "Son of the Highest." In His nature would be combined the powers of Godhood with the capacity and possibilities of mortality; and this through the ordinary operation of the fundamental law of heredity, declared of God, demonstrated by science, and admitted by philosophy, that living beings shall propagate—after their kind. The Child Jesus was to inherit the physical, mental, and Spiritual traits, tendencies, and powers that characterized His parents—one immortal and glorified—God, the other human—woman. (Jesus the Christ, James E. Talmage, p. 81)

 

Jesus According to the Bible

The Bible declares that Jesus is fully God, not a subordinate deity. He eternally exists as God and is our creator.

John 1:1-4, 14
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. ... And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and for ever.

Colossians 1:16-17
For by him [Christ] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.



TOPICS: General Discusssion; Other non-Christian
KEYWORDS: lds; mormonism
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There have been a number of threads recently that appear to be aimed at painting the LDS Church as just another ordinary normal everyday Christian Church. However, as these quotes show, the Mormon Concept of Jesus Christ is not exactly the same concept that is held by the vast Majority of Christian Churches in the world. Indeed, I think it is quite clear that the LDS definition of Jesus Christ is quite unique.

For discussion.

1 posted on 05/28/2008 10:23:47 PM PDT by P-Marlowe
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To: P-Marlowe; TheDon
The LDS Church teaches that God the Father has a physical, tangible, resurrected body and that God literally sired Jesus in the same physical sense that any other man begets a child.

Brigham Young: The man Joseph, the husband of Mary, did not, that we know of, have more than one wife, but Mary the wife of Joseph had another husband. On this account infidels have called the Savior a bastard. This is merely a human opinion upon one of the inscrutable doings of the Almighty. That very baby that was cradled in the manger, was begotten, not by Joseph, the husband of Mary, but by another Being. Do you inquire by whom? He was begotten by God our heavenly Father. (Journal of Discourses vol. 11, p. 268, 1866)

2 posted on 05/28/2008 10:39:00 PM PDT by Colofornian (As the fLDS is now, the LDS once was. As the fLDS is now, the LDS will become)
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To: Colofornian
LDS leaders? Who knew the Tanners, long time anti Mormons, were LDS leaders.

Here's what ACTUAL leaders of the LDS Church have to say about Jesus Christ.

WHO IS JESUS CHRIST?

By President Boyd K. Packer

Meeting with the Twelve at Caesarea Philippi, Jesus asked, “Whom say ye that I am?” Simon Peter, the chief Apostle answered, “Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God” (Matthew 16:15–16). Peter later testified that Jesus “was foreordained before the foundation of the world” (1 Peter 1:20). He was “in the beginning with the Father, and [is] the Firstborn” (D&C 93:21).

When the Father’s plan—the plan of salvation and happiness (see Alma 34:9)—was presented (see Alma 42:5, 8), one was required to atone to provide redemption and mercy to all those who accepted the plan (see Alma 34:16; 39:18; 42:15). The Father asked, “Whom shall I send?” He who was to be known as Jesus freely and willingly chose to answer, “Here am I, send me” (Abraham 3:27). “Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever” (Moses 4:2).
In preparation, the earth was created: “By the Son I created [the earth], which is mine Only Begotten,” declared the Father (Moses 1:33; see also Ephesians 3:9; Helaman 14:12; Moses 2:1).
Titles of Jesus Christ
He was known as Jehovah by the Old Testament prophets (see Abraham 1:16; Exodus 6:3). The prophets were shown of His coming: “Behold the Lamb of God, yea, even the Son of the Eternal Father!” (1 Nephi 11:21; see also John 1:14). His mother was told, “Call his name Jesus. … He shall be … called the Son of the Highest” (Luke 1:31–32).
Many titles and names are descriptive of His divine mission and ministry. He Himself taught: “I am the light and the life of the world. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end” (3 Nephi 9:18). “I am … your advocate with the Father” (D&C 29:5; see also D&C 110:14). “I am the good shepherd” (John 10:11). “I am Messiah, the King of Zion, the Rock of Heaven” (Moses 7:53). “I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger [or] thirst” (John 6:35). “I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman” (John 15:1). “I am the resurrection, and the life” (John 11:25). “I am … the bright and morning star” (Revelation 22:16), “Jesus Christ, your Redeemer, the Great I Am” (D&C 29:1).
He is the Mediator (see 1 Timothy 2:5), the Savior (see Luke 2:11), the Redeemer (see D&C 18:47), the Head of the Church (see Ephesians 5:23), its Chief Cornerstone (see Ephesians 2:20). At the last day, “God shall judge … men by Jesus Christ according to [the] gospel” (Romans 2:16; see also Mormon 3:20).
“God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son” (John 3:16); “wherefore, redemption cometh in and through the Holy Messiah; for he is full of grace and truth” (2 Nephi 2:6).
The Prophet Joseph Smith was often asked, “What are the fundamental principles of your religion?”
“The fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets, concerning Jesus Christ, that He died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven; and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it.”1
Humility of Jesus Christ
At the time of His arrest before His Crucifixion, the Lord had come from Gethsemane. At the moment of betrayal, Peter drew his sword against Malchus, a servant of the high priest. Jesus said:
“Put up again thy sword into his place. …
“Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?” (Matthew 26:52–53).
During all of the taunting, abuse, scourging, and final torture of crucifixion, the Lord remained silent and submissive—except, that is, for one moment of intense drama which reveals the very essence of Christian doctrine. That moment came during the trial. Pilate, now afraid, said to Jesus: “Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee?” (John 19:10).
One can only imagine the quiet majesty when the Lord spoke: “Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above” (John 19:11). What happened thereafter did not come because Pilate had power to impose it but because the Lord had the will to accept it.
“I lay down my life,” the Lord said, “that I might take it again.
“No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again” (John 10:17–18).
Atonement of Jesus Christ
Before the Crucifixion and afterward, many men have willingly given their lives in selfless acts of heroism. But none faced what Christ endured. Upon Him was the burden of all human transgression, all human guilt. And hanging in the balance was the Atonement. Through His willing act, mercy and justice could be reconciled, eternal law sustained, and that mediation achieved without which mortal man could not be redeemed.
He by choice accepted the penalty in behalf of all mankind for the sum total of all wickedness and depravity; for brutality, immorality, perversion, and corruption; for addiction; for the killings and torture and terror—for all of it that ever had been or all that ever would be enacted upon this earth. In so choosing He faced the awesome power of the evil one, who was not confined to flesh nor subject to mortal pain. That was Gethsemane!
How the Atonement was wrought we do not know. No mortal watched as evil turned away and hid in shame before the Light of that pure being. All wickedness could not quench that Light. When what was done was done, the ransom had been paid. Both death and hell forsook their claim on all who would repent. Men at last were free. Then every soul who ever lived could choose to touch that Light and be redeemed.
By this infinite sacrifice, “through [this] Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel” (Articles of Faith 1:3).
“Atonement” in Scripture
The English word atonement is really three words: at-one-ment, which means to set at one; one with God; to reconcile, to conciliate, to expiate.
But did you know that the word atonement appears only once in the English New Testament? Only once! I quote from Paul’s letter to the Romans:
“Christ died for us.
“… We were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
“And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement” (Romans 5:8, 10–11; emphasis added).
Only that once does the word atonement appear in the English New Testament. Atonement, of all words! It was not an unknown word, for it had been used much in the Old Testament in connection with the law of Moses, but once only in the New Testament. I find that to be remarkable.
I know of only one explanation. For that we turn to the Book of Mormon. Nephi testified that the Bible once “contained the fulness of the gospel of the Lord, of whom the twelve apostles bear record” and that “after [the words] go forth by the hand of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, from the Jews unto the Gentiles, thou seest the formation of that great and abominable church, which is most abominable above all other churches; for behold, they have taken away from the gospel of the Lamb many parts which are plain and most precious; and also many covenants of the Lord have they taken away” (1 Nephi 13:24, 26).
Jacob defined the great and abominable church in these words: “Wherefore, he that fighteth against Zion, both Jew and Gentile, both bond and free, both male and female, shall perish; for they are they who are the whore of all the earth; for they who are not for me are against me, saith our God” (2 Nephi 10:16).
Nephi also said, “Because of the many plain and precious things which have been taken out of the book, … an exceedingly great many do stumble, yea, insomuch that Satan hath great power over them” (1 Nephi 13:29). He then prophesied that the precious things would be restored (see 1 Nephi 13:34–35).
And they were restored. In the Book of Mormon the word atone in form and tense appears 39 times. I quote but one verse from Alma: “And now, the plan of mercy could not be brought about except an atonement should be made; therefore God himself atoneth for the sins of the world, to bring about the plan of mercy, to appease the demands of justice, that God might be a perfect, just God, and a merciful God also” (Alma 42:15; emphasis added).
Only once in the New Testament but 39 times in the Book of Mormon. What better witness that the Book of Mormon is indeed another testament of Jesus Christ?
And that is not all. The words atone, atoneth, and atonement appear in the Doctrine and Covenants five times and in the Pearl of Great Price twice. Forty-seven references of transcendent importance. And that is not all! Hundreds of other verses help to explain the Atonement.
Agency
The cost of the Atonement was borne by the Lord without compulsion, for agency is a sovereign principle. According to the plan, agency must be honored. It was so from the beginning, from Eden.
“The Lord said unto Enoch: Behold these thy brethren; they are the workmanship of mine own hands, and I gave unto them their knowledge, in the day I created them; and in the Garden of Eden, gave I unto man his agency” (Moses 7:32).
Whatever else happened in Eden, in his supreme moment of testing, Adam made a choice. After the Lord commanded Adam and Eve to multiply and replenish the earth and commanded them not to partake of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, He said, “Nevertheless, thou mayest choose for thyself, for it is given unto thee; but, remember that I forbid it, for in the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die” (Moses 3:17).
There was too much at issue to introduce man into mortality by force. That would contravene the very law essential to the plan. The plan provided that each spirit child of God would receive a mortal body and each would be tested. Adam saw that it must be so and made his choice. “Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy” (2 Nephi 2:25).
Adam and Eve ventured forth to multiply and replenish the earth as they had been commanded to do. The creation of their bodies in the image of God, as a separate creation, was crucial to the plan. Their subsequent Fall was essential if the condition of mortality was to exist and the plan to proceed.
Necessity of the Atonement
Nephi described what would happen to our bodies and our spirits except “an infinite atonement” was made. “Our spirits,” he said, “must have become like unto [the devil].” (See 2 Nephi 9:7–10.)
I seldom use the word absolutely. It seldom fits. I use it now—twice:
Because of the Fall, the Atonement was absolutely essential for resurrection to proceed and overcome mortal death.
The Atonement was absolutely essential for men to cleanse themselves from sin and overcome the second death, spiritual death, which is separation from our Father in Heaven, for the scriptures tell us eight times that no unclean thing may enter the presence of God (see 1 Nephi 10:21; 15:34; Alma 7:21; 11:37; 40:26; Helaman 8:25; 3 Nephi 27:19; Moses 6:57).
Those scriptural words, “Thou mayest choose for thyself, for it is given unto thee” (Moses 3:17), introduced Adam and Eve and their posterity to all the risks of mortality. In mortality men are free to choose, and each choice begets a consequence. The choice Adam made energized the law of justice, which required that the penalty for disobedience would be death.
But those words spoken at the trial, “Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above” (John 19:11), proved mercy was of equal rank. A redeemer was sent to pay the debt and set men free. That was the plan.
Alma’s son Corianton thought it unfair that penalties must follow sin, that there need be punishment. In a profound lesson, Alma taught the plan of redemption to his son and so to us. Alma spoke of the Atonement and said, “Now, repentance could not come unto men except there were a punishment” (Alma 42:16).
If punishment is the price repentance asks, it comes at bargain price. Consequences, even painful ones, protect us. So simple a thing as a child’s cry of pain when his finger touches fire can teach us that. Except for the pain, the child might be consumed.
Blessings of Repentance
I readily confess that I would find no peace, neither happiness nor safety, in a world without repentance. I do not know what I should do if there were no way for me to erase my mistakes. The agony would be more than I could bear. It may be otherwise with you, but not with me.
The Atonement was made. Ever and always it offers amnesty from transgression and from death if we will but repent. Repentance is the escape clause in it all. Repentance is the key with which we can unlock the prison from inside. We hold that key within our hands, and agency is ours to use it.
How supernally precious freedom is; how consummately valuable is agency.
Lucifer in clever ways manipulates our choices, deceiving us about sin and consequences. He and his angels tempt us to be unworthy, even wicked. But he cannot—in all eternity he cannot, with all his power he cannot—completely destroy us, not without our own consent. Had agency come to man without the Atonement, it would have been a fatal gift.
Created in His Image
We are taught in Genesis, in Moses, in Abraham, in the Book of Mormon, and in the endowment that man’s mortal body was made in the image of God in a separate creation. Had the Creation come in a different way, there could have been no Fall.
If men were merely animals, then logic favors freedom without accountability.
How well I know that among learned men are those who look down at animals and stones to find the origin of man. They do not look inside themselves to find the spirit there. They train themselves to measure things by time, by thousands and by millions, and say these animals called men all came by chance. And this they are free to do, for agency is theirs.
But agency is ours as well. We look up, and in the universe we see the handiwork of God and measure things by epochs, by aeons, by dispensations, by eternities. The many things we do not know, we take on faith.
But this we know! It was all planned “before the world was” (D&C 38:1; see also D&C 49:17; 76:13, 39; 93:7; Abraham 3:22–25). Events from the Creation to the final, winding-up scene are not based on chance; they are based on choice! It was planned that way.
This we know! This simple truth! Had there been no Creation and no Fall, there should have been no need for any Atonement, neither a Redeemer to mediate for us. Then Christ need not have been.
Symbols of the Atonement
At Gethsemane and Golgotha, the Savior’s blood was shed. Centuries earlier the Passover had been introduced as a symbol and a type of things to come. It was an ordinance to be kept forever. (See Exodus 12.)
When the plague of death was decreed upon Egypt, each Israelite family was commanded to take a lamb—firstborn, male, without blemish. This paschal lamb was slain without breaking any bones, its blood to mark the doorway of the home. The Lord promised that the angel of death would pass over the homes so marked and not slay those inside. They were saved by the blood of the lamb.
After the Crucifixion of the Lord, the law of sacrifice required no more shedding of blood. For that was done, as Paul taught the Hebrews, “once for all … one sacrifice for sins for ever” (Hebrews 10:10, 12). The sacrifice thenceforth was to be a broken heart and a contrite spirit—repentance.
And the Passover would be commemorated forever as the sacrament, in which we renew our covenant of baptism and partake in remembrance of the body of the Lamb of God and of His blood, which was shed for us.
It is no small thing that this symbol reappears in the Word of Wisdom. Beyond the promise that Saints in this generation who obey will receive health and great treasures of knowledge is this: “I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the destroying angel shall pass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them” (D&C 89:21).
I cannot with composure tell you how I feel about the Atonement. It touches the deepest emotion of gratitude and obligation. My soul reaches after Him who wrought it—this Christ, our Savior, of whom I am a witness. I testify of Him. He is our Lord, our Redeemer, our Advocate with the Father. He ransomed us with His blood.
Humbly I lay claim upon the Atonement of Christ. I find no shame in kneeling down in worship of our Father and His Son. For agency is mine, and this I choose to do!

3 posted on 05/28/2008 10:45:26 PM PDT by sevenbak (Your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. - 1 Corinthians 2:5)
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To: Colofornian
More actual leaders, not quote mined by the Tanners.

THE ATONEMENT OF JESUS CHRIST.
By Elder Jeffrey R. Holland

As a young missionary, Elder Orson F. Whitney (1855–1931), who later served in the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, had a dream so powerful that it changed his life forever. He later wrote:

“One night I dreamed … that I was in the Garden of Gethsemane, a witness of the Savior’s agony. … I stood behind a tree in the foreground. … Jesus, with Peter, James, and John, came through a little wicket gate at my right. Leaving the three Apostles there, after telling them to kneel and pray, He passed over to the other side, where He also knelt and prayed … : ‘Oh my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless not as I will but as Thou wilt.’
“As He prayed the tears streamed down His face, which was [turned] toward me. I was so moved at the sight that I wept also, out of pure sympathy with His great sorrow. My whole heart went out to Him. I loved Him with all my soul and longed to be with Him as I longed for nothing else.
“Presently He arose and walked to where those Apostles were kneeling—fast asleep! He shook them gently, awoke them, and in a tone of tender reproach, untinctured by the least show of anger or scolding, asked them if they could not watch with Him one hour. …
“Returning to His place, He prayed again and then went back and found them again sleeping. Again He awoke them, admonished them, and returned and prayed as before. Three times this happened, until I was perfectly familiar with His appearance—face, form, and movements. He was of noble stature and of majestic mien … the very God that He was and is, yet as meek and lowly as a little child.
“All at once the circumstance seemed to change. … Instead of before, it was after the Crucifixion, and the Savior, with those three Apostles, now stood together in a group at my left. They were about to depart and ascend into heaven. I could endure it no longer. I ran from behind the tree, fell at His feet, clasped Him around the knees, and begged Him to take me with Him.
“I shall never forget the kind and gentle manner in which He stooped and raised me up and embraced me. It was so vivid, so real that I felt the very warmth of His bosom against which I rested. Then He said: ‘No, my son; these have finished their work, and they may go with me; but you must stay and finish yours.’ Still I clung to Him. Gazing up into His face—for He was taller than I—I besought Him most earnestly: ‘Well, promise me that I will come to You at the last.’ He smiled sweetly and tenderly and replied: ‘That will depend entirely upon yourself.’ I awoke with a sob in my throat, and it was morning.”1
Why an Atonement?
This tender, personal glimpse of the Savior’s loving sacrifice is a fitting introduction to the significance of the Atonement of Jesus Christ. Indeed the Atonement of the Only Begotten Son of God in the flesh is the crucial foundation upon which all Christian doctrine rests and the greatest expression of divine love this world has ever been given. Its importance in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints cannot be overstated. Every other principle, commandment, and virtue of the restored gospel draws its significance from this pivotal event.2
The Atonement was indispensable because the Fall of Adam brought two kinds of death into the world.
The Atonement was the foreordained but voluntary act of the Only Begotten Son of God in which He offered His life and spiritual anguish as a redeeming ransom for the effect of the Fall of Adam upon all mankind and for the personal sins of all who repent.
The literal meaning of the English word Atonement is self-evident: at-one-ment, the bringing together of things that have been separated or estranged. The Atonement of Jesus Christ was indispensable because of the separating transgression, or Fall, of Adam, which brought two kinds of death into the world when Adam and Eve partook of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.3 Physical death brought the separation of the spirit from the body, and spiritual death brought the estrangement of both the spirit and the body from God. As a result of the Fall, all persons born into mortality would suffer these two kinds of death. But we must remember the Fall was an essential part of Heavenly Father’s divine plan. Without it no mortal children would have been born to Adam and Eve, and there would have been no human family to experience opposition and growth, moral agency, and the joy of resurrection, redemption, and eternal life.4
The need for this Fall and for an atonement to compensate for it was explained in a premortal Council in Heaven at which the spirits of the entire human family attended and over which God the Father presided. It was in this premortal setting that Christ volunteered to honor the moral agency of all humankind even as He atoned for their sins. In the process, He would return to the Father all glory for such redemptive love.5
This infinite Atonement of Christ was possible because (1) He was the only sinless man ever to live on this earth and therefore was not subject to the spiritual death resulting from sin, (2) He was the Only Begotten of the Father and therefore possessed the attributes of godhood that gave Him power over physical death,6 and (3) He was apparently the only one sufficiently humble and willing in the premortal council to be foreordained to that service.7
The Gifts of Christ’s Atonement
Some gifts coming from the Atonement are universal, infinite, and unconditional. These include His ransom for Adam’s original transgression so that no member of the human family is held responsible for that sin.8 Another universal gift is the Resurrection from the dead of every man, woman, and child who lives, has ever lived, or ever will live on earth.
The Resurrection of the body is a free and universal gift, a result of the Savior’s victory over death. It is one of the unconditional blessings available through the grace of Christ.
Other aspects of Christ’s atoning gift are conditional. They depend on one’s diligence in keeping God’s commandments. For example, while all members of the human family are freely given a reprieve from Adam’s sin through no effort of their own, they are not given a reprieve from their own sins unless they pledge faith in Christ, repent of those sins, are baptized in His name, receive the gift of the Holy Ghost and confirmation into Christ’s Church, and press forward in faithful endurance the remainder of life’s journey. Of this personal challenge, Christ said,
“For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent;
“But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I.”9
Furthermore, although the Resurrection of the body is a free and universal gift from Christ, a result of His victory over death, the nature of the resurrected body (or “degree of glory” given it), as well as the time of one’s Resurrection, is affected directly by one’s faithfulness in this life. The Apostle Paul made clear, for example, that those fully committed to Christ will “rise first”10 in the Resurrection. Modern revelation clarifies the different orders of resurrected bodies,11 promising the highest degree of glory only to those who adhere to the principles and ordinances of the gospel of Jesus Christ.12
Of course neither the unconditional nor the conditional blessings of the Atonement are available except through the grace of Christ. Obviously the unconditional blessings of the Atonement are unearned, but the conditional ones are not fully merited either. By living faithfully and keeping the commandments of God, one can receive additional privileges; but they are still given freely, not technically earned. The Book of Mormon declares emphatically that “there is no flesh that can dwell in the presence of God, save it be through the merits, and mercy, and grace of the Holy Messiah.”13
By this same grace, God provides for the salvation of little children, the mentally impaired, those who lived without hearing the gospel of Jesus Christ, and so forth: these are redeemed by the universal power of the Atonement of Christ and will have the opportunity to receive the fulness of the gospel after death, in the spirit world, where spirits reside while awaiting the Resurrection.14
Suffering and Triumph
To begin to meet the demands of the Atonement, the sinless Christ went into the Garden of Gethsemane, as Elder Whitney saw in his dream, there to bear the agony of soul only He could bear. He “began to be sore amazed and to be very heavy,” saying to Peter, James, and John, “My soul is exceeding sorrowful, unto death.”15 Why? Because He suffered “the pains of all men, yea, the pains of every living creature, both men, women, and children, who belong to the family of Adam.”16 He experienced “temptations, and pain of body, hunger, thirst, and fatigue, even more than man can suffer, except it be unto death; for behold, blood cometh from every pore, so great [was] his anguish.”17
Through this suffering, Jesus redeemed the souls of all men, women, and children “that his bowels may be filled with mercy, according to the flesh, that he may know according to the flesh how to succor his people according to their infirmities.”18 In doing so, Christ “descended below all things”—including every kind of sickness, infirmity, and dark despair experienced by every mortal being—in order that He might “comprehend all things, that he might be in all and through all things, the light of truth.”19
The utter loneliness and excruciating pain of the Atonement begun in Gethsemane reached its zenith when, after unspeakable abuse at the hands of Roman soldiers and others, Christ cried from the cross, “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?”20 In the depths of that anguish, even nature itself convulsed. “There was a darkness over all the earth. … And the sun was darkened.”21 “And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent,”22 causing many to exclaim, “The God of nature suffers.”23 Finally, even the seemingly unbearable had been borne, and Jesus said, “It is finished.”24 “Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit.”25 Someday, somewhere, every human tongue will be called upon to confess as did a Roman centurion who witnessed all of this, “Truly this was the Son of God.”26
To the thoughtful woman and man, it is “a matter of surpassing wonder”27 that the voluntary and merciful sacrifice of a single being could satisfy the infinite and eternal demands of justice, atone for every human transgression and misdeed, and thereby sweep all humankind into the encompassing arms of His merciful embrace. But so it is.
To quote President John Taylor (1808–87): “In a manner to us incomprehensible and inexplicable, He bore the weight of the sins of the whole world; not only of Adam, but of his posterity; and in doing that, opened the kingdom of heaven, not only to all believers and all who obeyed the law of God, but to more than one-half of the human family who die before they come to years of maturity, as well as to [those] who … [die] without [the] law.”28
As Elder Whitney felt regarding this majestic gift and the giver of it, may we so feel: “I was so moved at the [gift] that I wept … out of pure sympathy. My whole heart went out to Him. I loved Him with all my soul and longed to be with Him as I longed for nothing else.” Having already offered the Atonement in our behalf, Christ has done His part to make that longing a reality. The rest will depend entirely upon ourselves.

“The Divinity of Jesus Christ,” Improvement Era, Jan. 1926, 224–25; see also Liahona, Dec. 2003, 16; punctuation, capitalization, and spelling standardized.

See Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith (2007), 49.

See Genesis 2:9; 3.

See 2 Nephi 2:22–27; Moses 5:11.

See Revelation 13:8; Moses 4:1–2; Abraham 3:22–27.

See John 5:26–29; 2 Nephi 9:5–12; Alma 34:9–14.

See James E. Talmage, Jesus the Christ, 3rd ed. (1916), 21–22.

See Articles of Faith 1:2.

D&C 19:16–17.

1 Thessalonians 4:16.

See D&C 76:50–113; compare 1 Corinthians 15:40–42.

See D&C 76:50–70; 88:4, 27–29; 132:21–24.

2 Nephi 2:8.

See Alma 40:11; D&C 138; compare Luke 23:43; John 5:25.

Mark 14:33–34.

2 Nephi 9:21.

Mosiah 3:7.

Alma 7:12.

D&C 88:6.

Matthew 27:46.

Luke 23:44–45.

Matthew 27:51.

1 Nephi 19:12.

John 19:30.

Luke 23:46.

Matthew 27:54.

James E. Talmage, The Articles of Faith, 12th ed. (1924), 77.

The Mediation and Atonement (1882), 148–49; capitalization standardized.

4 posted on 05/28/2008 10:47:47 PM PDT by sevenbak (Your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. - 1 Corinthians 2:5)
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To: Colofornian

I do believe that Mormons teach that Mary was a virgin and that the birth was a virgin birth.

So?....I doubt the Mormons teach “that God literally sired Jesus in the same physical sense that any other man begets a child.” Are you sure you have this concept correct about their religious belief?


5 posted on 05/28/2008 10:49:36 PM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: sevenbak

The Questions from Satan would be convienent, Not all (if any) were.


6 posted on 05/28/2008 10:49:45 PM PDT by eyedigress
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To: P-Marlowe
Additional apostolic witnesses of Christ, unpopular with the Tanners.

FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST
By Elder Russell M. Nelson

My long road to become a doctor of medicine was only the beginning. After that came years of hospital work, research, specialty training, and certifying examinations. Then followed many years of teaching, service, and the challenges of the newly emerging field of open-heart surgery, all of which brought me to a profound reverence for the structure and function of the human body. I was convinced that its creation was divine.

The Remarkable Human Body
Think of the genesis of a human body. It begins with the union of two reproductive cells—one from the mother and one from the father. Together, these cells contain all of the new individual’s hereditary information, stored in a space so small it cannot be seen by the naked eye. Twenty-three chromosomes from each parent unite in one new cell. These chromosomes contain thousands of genes which determine the physical characteristics of the unborn person. Approximately 22 days after these cells unite, a tiny heart begins to beat. At 26 days, blood begins to circulate. Cells multiply and divide. Some become eyes that see; others become ears that hear or fingers that feel the wondrous things about us.
Each organ is an amazing creation. The eye has a self-focusing lens. Nerves and muscles allow two eyes to make a single three-dimensional image. The ear converts sound waves into audible tones perceived in the brain.
The heart has four delicate valves that control the direction of blood flow. They open and close more than 100,000 times a day—36 million times a year. Unless altered by disease, they are able to withstand this stress almost indefinitely. No man-made material can be flexed so frequently and so long without breaking. Each day, the adult heart pumps enough fluid to fill a 2,000-gallon (7,570-L) tank. At the crest of the heart is a source of electricity that transmits energy down special lines, causing myriads of muscle fibers to work together.
Think of the body’s backup systems. Each paired organ has instant backup available from the other of the pair. Single organs, such as the brain, the heart, and the liver, are nourished by two routes of blood supply. This protects the organ if blood flow should be impeded through one of those routes.
Think of the body’s capacity to defend itself. To protect it from harm, the body perceives pain. In response to infection, it generates antibodies. They not only help to combat an immediate problem, but they persist to bolster resistance to any future infection.
Think how the body repairs itself. Broken bones mend and become strong again. Skin lacerations heal themselves. A leak in the circulation can seal itself. The body renews its own outdated cells.
The body regulates its own vital ingredients. Levels of essential elements and constituents are adjusted continuously. And regardless of wide fluctuations in temperature of the environment, the temperature of the body is carefully controlled within narrow bounds.
Through years of experience, I have learned that healing occurs only when all of the laws relevant to that blessing are obeyed.1 The structure and function of the body are governed by law. A verse of scripture so states: “Unto every kingdom is given a law; and unto every law there are certain bounds also and conditions.”2
Law and order undergird all creation, whether manifested in the predictability of the tides, the phases of the moon, or the location of stars in the sky. Such order bears witness of a Supreme Creator.
Scientists in many disciplines observe similar manifestations of law and order, whether in the predictability of the tides, the phases of the moon, or the location of stars in the sky. Such law and order undergird all creation. Those laws can be discovered and defined. Their consequences can be measured. Such order bears witness of a Supreme Creator.3
The matter of faith, on the other hand, cannot be measured. But the correlation of faith in God with the law and order of the universe is revealed in scripture:
“[God] hath given a law unto all things, by which they move in their times and their seasons;
“And their courses are fixed, even the courses of the heavens and the earth, which comprehend the earth and all the planets. …
“Behold, all these are kingdoms, and any man who hath seen any or the least of these hath seen God moving in his majesty and power.”4
Divinity of the Creation
Scriptures declare that heaven, earth, and all things upon the earth are divinely created.5 Scriptures also help us to know more about the partnership of God and His Son, Jesus Christ, in the Creation. The first words in the Bible state, “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth,”6 and, “God created man in his own image, … male and female created he them.”7 The book of Abraham teaches that “the Gods went down to organize man in their own image, in the image of the Gods to form they him, male and female to form they them.”8
Scripture records the feelings of Heavenly Father for His Beloved Son and for each human being: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”9
The book of John begins with this declaration:
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
“The same was in the beginning with God.
“All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.”10
This scripture denotes that the Word11 of God is Jesus Christ—God’s personal minister in the government of this universe and Creator of all life.
This fact was affirmed to Moses by our Heavenly Father, who said:
“And by the word of my power, have I created them [the earth and the individuals on it], which is mine Only Begotten Son, who is full of grace and truth.
“And worlds without number have I created; and I also created them for mine own purpose; and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten.”12
Many other scriptures confirm that, under direction of the Father, Jesus Christ is the Creator.13 One of the most compelling is His own personal testimony: “Behold, I am Jesus Christ the Son of God. I created the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are. I was with the Father from the beginning.”14
Dynamics of Faith in Jesus Christ
For one to accept that concept requires dynamic faith. Faith is the foundation of personal testimony. The first principles of the gospel begin with faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.15 Paul said that “faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.”16 He pled “that Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend … and to know the love of Christ.”17 Paul entreated us to “come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God.”18
Dynamic faith in the Lord brings conversion, a mighty change of heart, a change of thinking, from the ways of the world to the ways of Deity.
From the Book of Mormon we learn that “we are made alive in Christ because of our faith. … And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins.”19
Blessings that flow from faith in Him are also revealed in the Book of Mormon. There we read: “Ye must press forward with a steadfastness in Christ, having a perfect brightness of hope, and a love of God and of all men. Wherefore, if ye shall press forward, feasting upon the word of Christ, and endure to the end, behold, thus saith the Father: Ye shall have eternal life.”20 That is the “greatest of all the gifts of God.”21
Dynamic faith in the Lord leads to complete conversion and a consummate commitment to His holy work. We become children of the covenant; we become His children. Scripture so confirms: “And now, because of the covenant which ye have made ye shall be called the children of Christ, his sons, and his daughters; for behold, this day he hath spiritually begotten you; for ye say that your hearts are changed through faith on his name; therefore, ye are born of him and have become his sons and his daughters.”22
Dynamic faith in the Lord brings conversion, a mighty change of heart,23 a change of thinking, from the ways of the world to the ways of Deity. It causes one to repent with “full purpose of heart.”24 Alma added, “Preach unto them repentance, and faith on the Lord Jesus Christ; teach them to humble themselves and to be meek and lowly in heart; teach them to withstand every temptation of the devil, with their faith on the Lord Jesus Christ.”25
The Book of Mormon exists, in part, to convince the Jew and Gentile that Jesus is the Christ, the eternal God.26 Those who read the Book of Mormon and ask in faith if the book is true gain a testimony of its truth. They also “come to know … that Jesus Christ is the Savior of the world [and] that Joseph Smith is his revelator and prophet in these last days.”27
Faith in Jesus Christ: Essential to Salvation and Exaltation
Faith in Jesus Christ not only brings blessings in this life, but it is essential to our eternal salvation and exaltation. Scripture declares, “All men must repent and believe on the name of Jesus Christ, and worship the Father in his name, and endure in faith on his name to the end, or they cannot be saved in the kingdom of God.”28 The Lord also holds parents responsible to teach their children to have “faith in Christ the Son of the living God.”29
I testify that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God. He is our Creator, Savior and Redeemer,30 Advocate with the Father,31 Deliverer,32 and Jehovah of the Old Testament.33 He is the promised Immanuel,34 the anointed Messiah,35 and our great Exemplar.36 One day He will return to rule and reign as King of kings and Lord of lords.37 Eventually, we will each stand before Him at judgment day.38 I pray for each of us that our individual faith in Him will be acceptable.

That very concept was established by the Lord when He said, “When we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated” (D&C 130:21).

D&C 88:38.

See Alma 30:44.

D&C 88:42–43, 47.

See Colossians 1:16; Mosiah 4:2, 9; 5:15; Alma 18:28; 22:10; Moses 3:5.

Genesis 1:1.

Genesis 1:27.

Abraham 4:27.

John 3:16.

John 1:1–3.

In Greek, Logos (meaning “word”) is another name for Christ.

Moses 1:32–33; emphasis added.

See Ephesians 3:9; Mosiah 3:8–11; Helaman 14:12; Mormon 9:8–14.

3 Nephi 9:15. The Lord further declared, “Behold, I am Jesus Christ, the Son of the living God, who created the heavens and the earth, a light which cannot be hid in darkness” (D&C 14:9).

See Articles of Faith 1:4.

Hebrews 11:1.

Ephesians 3:17–19.

Ephesians 4:11–13; see also Galatians 3:26–29.

2 Nephi 25:25–26.

2 Nephi 31:20; see also Enos 1:8; Mosiah 3:12.

D&C 14:7.

Mosiah 5:7.

See Alma 5:12–14.

2 Nephi 31:13; see also Jacob 6:5; Mosiah 7:33; 3 Nephi 10:6; 12:24; 18:32.

Alma 37:33; see also Mormon 9:37; Moroni 7:25–26, 33–34, 38–39.

See Book of Mormon title page.

Book of Mormon introduction.

D&C 20:29.

D&C 68:25; see also Moses 6:57–62.

See Isaiah 49:26; 60:16; 1 Nephi 21:26; 2 Nephi 6:18.

See D&C 29:5; 110:4.

See 2 Samuel 22:2; D&C 138:23.

See D&C 110:3.

See Isaiah 7:14.

See 2 Nephi 25:14–19.

See John 13:15; 3 Nephi 27:21.

See Revelation 17:14; 19:16.

See Revelation 20:12; 1 Nephi 15:33; 2 Nephi 9:22, 44; 28:23; Alma 5:15; 3 Nephi 27:14; Mormon 3:20; 9:8–14.

7 posted on 05/28/2008 10:50:26 PM PDT by sevenbak (Your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. - 1 Corinthians 2:5)
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To: sevenbak

Shhh.. There is a ....................


8 posted on 05/28/2008 10:51:14 PM PDT by eyedigress
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To: sevenbak; Colofornian
LDS leaders? Who knew the Tanners, long time anti Mormons, were LDS leaders. Here's what ACTUAL leaders of the LDS Church have to say about Jesus Christ....

Are you here to repudiate the statements in the article, or just spam the thread with endless irrelevant articles?

Tell me seven, was Jesus Christ God from all eternity, or did he become a God at some point in time? The quotes above seem to indicate that Jesus was not always God and that he somehow earned that title, or was given the title of God as a reward for his obedience.

Are you willing to refute that notion and condemn those who would teach such a doctrine?

9 posted on 05/28/2008 10:54:01 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: wintertime
This is an old claim, repeated over the decades. I won't even argue it anymore, it's been done so many times here on FR.

Try this instead. I'm going to bed. ;-)

Was Mary a virgin?

by W. John Walsh

If Jesus was conceived as a result of a physical union between God and Mary, how was Jesus born of a virgin? (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 1, page 50).

One of the more common misrepresentations spread by anti-Mormons is that Latter-day Saints do not believe in the virgin birth (i.e., that Mary was a virgin when Jesus was born). Let's begin by clearly stating the official doctrine of the Church, as contained in the Book of Mormon:

"And behold, he shall be born of Mary, at Jerusalem which is the land of our forefathers, she being a virgin, a precious and chosen vessel, who shall be overshadowed and conceive by the power of the Holy Ghost, and bring forth a son, yea, even the Son of God." (Alma 7:10, emphasis added)

As we can see, the virgin birth is an official doctrine of the Church. Occasionally, the critics produce statements from LDS literature like the following:

"God the Father is a perfected, glorified, holy Man, an immortal Personage. And Christ was born into the world as the literal Son of this Holy Being; he was born in the same personal, real, and literal sense that any mortal son is born to a mortal father. There is nothing figurative about his paternity; he was begotten, conceived and born in the normal and natural course of events, for he is the Son of God, and that designation means what it says." (Elder Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p.742)

"When the Virgin Mary conceived the child Jesus, the Father had begotten him in his own likeness. He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost." (President Brigham Young on April 9, 1852. The Journal of Discourses, Vol. 1, page 50)

The critics would offer these types of statements as evidence that Latter-day Saints believe that Mary was not a virgin when Jesus was born. They falsely say that descriptive terms like "normal and natural course of events" must mean normal sexual relations as we understand them. While this might be a possible interpretation if no other information existed on this subject, the critics conveniently ignore all other information that proves their interpretation of these types of statements to be incorrect, such as:

"Our Lord is the only mortal person ever born to a virgin, because he is the only person who ever had an immortal Father. Mary, his mother, "was carried away in the Spirit" (1 Ne. 11:13-21), was "overshadowed" by the Holy Ghost, and the conception which took place "by the power of the Holy Ghost" resulted in the bringing forth of the literal and personal Son of God the Father. (Alma 7:10; 2 Ne. 17:14; Isa. 7:14; Matt. 1:18-25; Luke 1:26-38.) Christ is not the Son of the Holy Ghost, but of the Father. (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, pp. 18-20.) Modernistic teachings denying the virgin birth are utterly and completely apostate and false. (Elder Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p.822, emphasis added)

"He was the Only Begotten Son of our Heavenly Father in the flesh—the only child whose mortal body was begotten by our Heavenly Father. His mortal mother, Mary, was called a virgin, both before and after she gave birth. (See 1 Nephi 11:20.)" ("Joy in Christ," Ensign 16 [March 1986]: 3-4., emphasis added) (See President Benson's Teachings About Christ)

It is worth noting that many of these clarifying statements appear in the exact same literature as the other statements quoted above. Therefore, the critics were aware of them and purposely chose to ignore them. I will leave it to the reader's judgment as to why our enemies might do such a thing.

Since it is clear that Latter-day Saints believe in the virgin birth, then how do we interpret the statements that might imply otherwise [implied only if nothing else were known]? The key to understanding lies in the differences between Trinitarian theology and LDS doctrine. Unlike Trinitarians, who believe that the Father and Son are of one essence, Latter-day Saints believe that the members of the Godhead are separate personages united in purpose, power, and glory. This is a key theological difference between us and the Trinitarians.

Since the Holy Ghost is a separate personage from God the Father, it is important to point out that Jesus is the only begotten son of God the Father and not the son of the Holy Ghost. We should make it clear that when Church leaders state that Jesus is not the son of the Holy Ghost, they are not saying that the power of the Holy Ghost was not used in the conception process. They are simply saying that the Holy Ghost personage is not the father of Jesus.

The fact that Jesus Christ is begotten of the Father is abundantly testified to by scripture: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16). When Jesus was baptized, God the Father spoke from heaven and said, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." (Matthew 3:17) If one cannot believe God, then whom can one believe? President Ezra Taft Benson taught:

"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints proclaims that Jesus Christ is the Son of God in the most literal sense. The body in which He performed His mission in the flesh was sired by that same Holy Being we worship as God, our Eternal Father. Jesus was not the son of Joseph, nor was He begotten by the Holy Ghost. He is the Son of the Eternal Father." (Come unto Christ, p. 4.)

If Jesus is truly the Son of God the Father, then what part did the Holy Ghost play in his miraculous conception? The Father used the power of the Holy Ghost as an agent, or enabler, so that a virgin could give birth to his Son. The specifics are beyond our knowledge and possibly our comprehension.

Therefore, the statements from Church leaders indicating that Jesus was begotten, conceived and born in the normal and natural course of events should be understood that God works through natural means in everything that he does. At times, his works like the Virgin Birth may seem to defy natural laws as man knows them. In those cases, we should understand that "[our Heavenly Father beget Jesus of a virgin] not in violation of natural law but in accordance with a higher manifestation thereof" (Elder James E. Talmage, Jesus the Christ, p. 81).

For example, President Joseph Fielding Smith taught:

"A miracle is not, as many believe, the setting aside or overruling natural laws. Every miracle performed in Biblical days or now, is done on natural principles and in obedience to natural law. The healing of the sick, the raising of the dead, giving eyesight to the blind, whatever it may be that is done by the power of God, is in accordance with natural law. Because we do not understand how it is done, does not argue for the impossibility of it. Our Father in heaven knows many laws that are hidden from us." (Man: His Origin and Destiny, p. 484- TLDP:649, emphasis added)

Elder James E. Talmage taught:

Miracles cannot be in contravention of natural law, but are wrought through the operation of laws not universally or commonly recognized. Gravitation is everywhere operative, but the local and special application of other agencies may appear to nullify it -- as by muscular effort or mechanical impulse a stone is lifted from the ground, poised aloft, or sent hurtling through space. At every stage of the process, however, gravity is in full play, though its effect is modified by that of other and locally superior energy. The human sense of the miraculous wanes as comprehension of the operative process increases. (Jesus the Christ, Ch.11, p.148, emphasis added)

In other words, while we may not understand how a virgin can conceive a child, the virgin birth did occur and it was a natural event, not an unnatural one.

10 posted on 05/28/2008 10:57:10 PM PDT by sevenbak (Your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. - 1 Corinthians 2:5)
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To: sevenbak

Don’t spam me, bro.


11 posted on 05/28/2008 10:57:11 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: P-Marlowe

I don’t answer to you. And I don’t quote mine and slander another faith.

Would you like me to continue to post ENTIRE beliefs of LDS prophets? Not now of course, but I can pick up in the morning.

Have a good evening Marlowe.


12 posted on 05/28/2008 10:59:22 PM PDT by sevenbak (Your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. - 1 Corinthians 2:5)
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To: P-Marlowe

Your post is correct, anyone wondering should be most humble.


13 posted on 05/28/2008 11:01:27 PM PDT by eyedigress
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To: sevenbak; Colofornian
I don’t answer to you.

I've noticed a pattern where you don't answer period.

Would you like me to continue to post ENTIRE beliefs of LDS prophets? Not now of course, but I can pick up in the morning.

It's FREE Republic. Post whatever you want. Just answer this one question... Please:

Tell me seven, was Jesus Christ God from all eternity, or did he become a God at some point in time?

14 posted on 05/28/2008 11:02:22 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: sevenbak
I will leave it to the reader's judgment as to why our enemies might do such a thing.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Hm?...Let me guess?

*They enjoy bashing other churches, and the **only** true church is their tiny congregation. They rest of the world are heretics.

*They are jealous of the Mormon successes with missionary work.

* They are professional cranks and sour faced people.

* When they are bored with bashing Catholics, they take a turn at Mormons.

15 posted on 05/28/2008 11:03:42 PM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: P-Marlowe

THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO
ST JOHN
CHAPTER 14
Jesus speaks of many mansions; says he is the way, the truth, and the life; that to see him is to see the Father—He promises the first and second Comforters.
1 Let not your heart be atroubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father’s ahouse are many bmansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will acome again, and receive you unto myself; that bwhere cI am, there ye may be also.
4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the away, the btruth, and the life: no man ccometh unto the Father, but by me.
7 If ye had aknown me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the aFather; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the aFather, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11 Believe me that I am ain the bFather, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake.
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that abelieveth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I bgo unto my cFather.
13 And whatsoever ye shall aask in my bname, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
15 ¶ If ye alove me, bkeep my ccommandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another aComforter, that he may babide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you acomfortless: I will bcome to you.
19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
21 He that hath my commandments, and akeepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be bloved of my Father, and I will love him, and will cmanifest myself to him.
22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will alove him, and we will come unto him, and make our babode with him.
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me.
25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
26 But the aComforter, which is the bHoly Ghost, whom the Father will send in my cname, he shall dteach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
27 aPeace I leave with you, my bpeace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be ctroubled, neither let it be afraid.
28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I ago unto the Father: for my bFather is greater than I.
29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might abelieve.
30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: afor the bprince of this cworld cometh, and hath nothing in me.
31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me acommandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.


16 posted on 05/28/2008 11:16:07 PM PDT by BlueMoose
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To: BlueMoose

Tell me Blue Moose, was Jesus Christ God from all eternity, or did he become a God at some point in time?


17 posted on 05/28/2008 11:17:38 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: P-Marlowe

3 And this is alife beternal, that they might cknow thee the only true dGod, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast esent.
4 I have aglorified thee on the earth: I have bfinished the work which thou gavest me to do.
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.


18 posted on 05/28/2008 11:18:16 PM PDT by BlueMoose
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To: BlueMoose

Tell me Blue Moose, was Jesus Christ God from all eternity, or did he become a God at some point in time?


19 posted on 05/28/2008 11:18:58 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: sevenbak
The book of Abraham teaches that “the Gods went down to organize man in their own image, in the image of the Gods to form they him, male and female to form they them.

The Gods?

Are you a polytheist?

20 posted on 05/28/2008 11:26:07 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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