Why so many LDS threads?

08-May-2008 | Grig

[DelphiUser]

You sure did!

And it did NOT back up your claims.

Your "quote" THIS time didn't do it either.

You must think no one actually READS your stuff!

I thought it backed up the claims, guess we are back to opinion and perspective then.

You keep telling me no one reads it...

Stating your opinion "that quote didn't back up what you said..." is a really silly debate tool, it leads to yes it did, no it didn't ... arguments, I guess that's what you are going for.

[DelphiUser]

Nice try, DU, but the statement above directly challenges my testimony FROM GOD.

Anti's challenge my testimony "FROM GOD" all the time, so? I did not challenge your testimony of God, that gets you ETERNAL PERIL.

As to answering questions, why would I even consider answering charges regarding my personal relationship with God from someone who has NO authority to charge, question OR challenge?

I was not asking you for personal details about your relationship with God, I claimed no more authority than Curiosity, and have no more authority to question your testimony than Antis have to question mine, but they do and you don't seem to complain, in fact, you are one of them.

Look to your OWN "peril" as a follower of a charlatan instead of a follower of Jesus.

I think I'm just going to keel over and die from the shock of that charge... NOT!

Do you guys ever get tired of claiming we worship Joseph Smith and not Jesus?

It's such a blatant, easily provable lie, that it's funny to watch you guys pull out that old cannard over and over...

This exchange beautifully illuminates the hypocracy of the mormon's "challenge" to read the BOM and pray about it", by showing the attitude of mormons towards those who pray, study and receive a warning from the Holy Spirit about their false "scripture" being sold to the world.

Mormons consider them to be liars if they don't receive the message that Joseph Smith is a true prophet of God.

So, theoretically, if an anti (where anti's have stated that lying in fighting Mormons is OK) Lies and saying they have read the Book of Moron and Prayed about it in all earnestness, and relieved a resounding NO! When in reality all they did was post about doing such a thing, how is anyone supposed to know? if they ask questions about the ill thought out story, they are branded as denying a "TESTIMONY FROM GOD" If they mildly sit by and allow the false claim to succeed, they are "proved wrong" by a lie.

This would be a masterful set up, except that it's too obvious, A group who teaches that it is OK to lie if necessary when Debating Mormons cannot be questioned about telling a lie?

Some "challenge" that is!

Actually, it is. Anti's who claim to have taken the challenge then run from questions like a cow from a branding iron! Simple questions go unanswered, like "how did you receive a negative answer?", "What exactly were you asking God in your prayer?", "What exactly were your preparations for an answer from on high?"

If these questions sound familiar, they should, they were the questions that I asked you in my post after you had claimed a negative response, and you never answered a one of them.

Why? I'm not exactly asking for details, I just want to know if you prayed about the Book of Mormon or some thing else, since antis routinely make fun of "burners" I wanted to know the method of communication. And since in my opinion asking such a question should not be done lightly, I asked what preparations you made for receiving an answer from on High (If for example, you had said, well, I set down my beer and my pizza, asked my mistress to stop that for a moment, and turned off the porno and prayed... I'd say Houston we have found the problem!) I am not insinuating that you actually DO any of these things, just that I hate to assume when I can simply ask what preparations you made...)

For anyone who cares, the "Testimony" post can be found here.
My response here.

[DelphiUser]

I tried to catch up, but remoting into a machine at home (I could post form my phone?!? Ouch!) is too slow and I have to go now.

I know you will all miss me over the next week, I will post as I can, but I spent most of Saturday playing planes trains and automobiles, and will be on site all week, I do not know if I will be able to post, if I can, I will, if not, well you'll just have to wait for next week for me to set you straight.

TTYL

[SkyPilot]

Have you found the doctor who ‘took care’ of some of Joe's illegitimate impregnations? It is a most ghastly footnote on the origins of this Christian wannabe cult.

No, but send that link to Reno232 please.

And just to show how disingenuous your post could be perceived, I'll make a challenge to you on just one of your points. You claim that Joseph Smith had sex w/ over 29 women. Please provide links w/ irrefutable evidence that Joseph Smith had SEX w/ over 29 women. If you can provide irrefutable evidence that that is so, i.e. babies, DNA, etc., I will leave the board never to return. However, if you cannot, you agree to leave the board never to return. Deal? ..........Reno 232

I'll send him the links to the "wives" (read: conquests) of Joe Smith.

The women diddled by Joe.

More.....

Emma Hale Fannie Alger Lucinda Pendleton Morgan Harris Louisa Beaman Zina Diantha Huntington Jacobs Prescindia Huntington Buell Agnes Moulton Coolbrith Smith Sylvia Porter Sessions Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner Patty Bartlett Sessions Nancy Marinda Johnson Hyde Elizabeth Davis Goldsmith Brackenbury Durfee Sarah Maryetta Kingsley Cleveland Delcena Johnson Sherman Eliza Roxey Snow Sarah Ann Whitney Martha McBride Ruth Daggett Vose Sayers Flora Ann Woodworth Emily Dow Partridge Eliza Maria Partridge Almera Woodward Johnson Lucy Walker Sarah Lawrence Maria Lawrence Helen Mar Kimball Elvira Annie Cowles Rhoda Richards Desdemona Wadsworth Fullmer Hannah Ells Olive Grey Frost Melissa Lott Nancy Mariah Winchester Fanny Young Murray

Still more.....

There is substantial evidence to show that Joseph Smith was sealed to the wives of other men. This occurred while the men were still legally married to their wives. Sometimes these second marriages even occurred outside the presence of their husbands.

And....more....

Would you share your wife with the Prophet?

Lot's more.......

The Wacky World of Joseph Smith

Whoops! Looks like some sex was going on here!

Faithful Mormon Melissa Lott (Smith Willes) testified that she had been Joseph's wife "in very deed." (Affidavit of Melissa Willes, 3 Aug. 1893, Temple Lot case, 98, 105; Foster, Religion and Sexuality, 156.) - In a court affidavit, faithful Mormon Joseph Noble wrote that Joseph told him he had spent the night with Louisa Beaman. (Temple Lot Case, 427) - Emily D. Partridge (Smith Young) said she "roomed" with Joseph the night following her marriage to him and said that she had "carnal intercourse" with him. (Temple Lot case (complete transcript), 364, 367, 384; see Foster, Religion and Sexuality, 15.)

"In total, 13 faithful latter-day saint women who were married to Joseph Smith swore court affidavits that they had sexual relations with him."

Or.....Reno.....do you want to claim that he just "married" these women because he had such a BIG heart and only wanted to "take care" of them......in a "grandfather" kind of way?

[Elsie]

“There are no MORMONS on these threads that have an answer!!”

Well, that's not really the truth now is it Elsie? I have answered this question for you on more than one occasion. For example:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2011926/posts?page=81#81

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2011926/posts?page=94#94

Thanks for making my point about posting these things time & time again even though you've already received the answers. You often claim that no Mormon has an answer. How many times will you be caught in these lies?

 

 

Well; here  are your two links.   You HAVE no 'answer', other than to REPREAT what Joseph Smith CLAIMED.

 

---

To: Elsie

Actually, this is an easy one. Joseph Smith learned from the Lord that none of the Christian churches of the day were the TRUE church, His church. The Lord basically told the Pharisees & Sadducee's the same thing during His Ministry here on earth. For me, it's not very hard to understand that the Lord would have ONE true church that was His. One! Not thousands w/ all their varying doctrines & ordinances.

I respect the opinion of those that don't believe the Mormons have the truth or are the true church. What befuddles me are those that claim all Christian churches are true even though their beliefs contradict one another on several key points. Christ never taught it was o.k. to believe differently. He taught one set of principles. There were not options of truth to choose from.

Now Elsie, I believe I've explained this to you before. Please don't represent & say that no Mormon has answered you. They have, & I just did. You may not accept that answer as is often the case, but don't claim the answer wasn't given.

81 posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 1:42:54 AM by Reno232

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To: Elsie

This seems to be a hard one for you to grasp Elsie. What he found to be untrue was the church. He found that the PRESBYTERIAN church was not the true church of God. The same w/ all others. I thought that to have been presented quite clearly in my post. What part of what is so hard to understand?

94 posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 9:28:20 AM by Reno232

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---

 

 

Where is the LIES I have made?

 

 

One more time:

 

"Just what did Joseph Smith 'learn' to be UNTRUE about PRESBYTERIANISM?"

 

(The word WHAT is important here!)

Actually, this is an easy one. Joseph Smith learned from the Lord that none of the Christian churches of the day were the TRUE church, His church. The Lord basically told the Pharisees & Sadducee's the same thing during His Ministry here on earth. For me, it's not very hard to understand that the Lord would have ONE true church that was His. One! Not thousands w/ all their varying doctrines & ordinances.

I respect the opinion of those that don't believe the Mormons have the truth or are the true church. What befuddles me are those that claim all Christian churches are true even though their beliefs contradict one another on several key points. Christ never taught it was o.k. to believe differently. He taught one set of principles. There were not options of truth to choose from.

Now Elsie, I believe I've explained this to you before. Please don't represent & say that no Mormon has answered you. They have, & I just did. You may not accept that answer as is often the case, but don't claim the answer wasn't given.

This seems to be a hard one for you to grasp Elsie. What he found to be untrue was the church. He found that the PRESBYTERIAN church was not the true church of God. The same w/ all others. I thought that to have been presented quite clearly in my post. What part of what is so hard to understand?

[Elsie]

And it’s YELLOW!

[Elsie]

Sure a lot of “could have” and “might have” in that, ahem, article.

No; it is NOT ‘lying for the Lord, but it DOES fall under the heading of GUESSING for the masses!

[Elsie]

Stating your opinion "that quote didn't back up what you said..." is a really silly debate tool, it leads to yes it did, no it didn't ... arguments, I guess that's what you are going for.

I posted what YOU claimed.

It is not in it.

Blather on.

[Elsie]

 

 

 

                                         Decisions decisions!

 

Fanny Alger Lucinda Morgan Harris Louisa Beaman Zina Huntington Jacobs Presendia Huntington Buell Agnes Coolbrith Sylvia Sessions Lyon Mary Rollins Lightner Patty Bartlett Sessions Marinda Johnson Hyde Elizabeth Davis Durfee Sarah Kingsley Cleveland Delcena Johnson Eliza R. Snow Sarah Ann Whitney Martha McBride Knight Ruth Vose Sayers Flora Ann Woodworth Emily Dow Partridge Eliza Maria Partridge Almera Johnson Lucy Walker Sarah Lawrence Maria Lawrence Helen Mar Kimball Hanna Ells Elvira Cowles Holmes Rhoda Richards Desdemona Fullmer Olive Frost Melissa Lott Nancy Winchester Fanny Young

Emma Hale only!!

 

[greyfoxx39]

So, theoretically, if an anti (where anti's have stated that lying in fighting Mormons is OK) Lies and saying they have read the Book of Moron and Prayed about it in all earnestness, and relieved a resounding NO! When in reality all they did was post about doing such a thing, how is anyone supposed to know? if they ask questions about the ill thought out story, they are branded as denying a "TESTIMONY FROM GOD" If they mildly sit by and allow the false claim to succeed, they are "proved wrong" by a lie.

We have a mormon who has accused another of being in "ETERNAL PERIL" for supposedly questioning HIS testimony!

This mormon believes HE has the right to accuse others of "if an anti (where anti's have stated that lying in fighting Mormons is OK) Lies and saying they have read the Book of Moron and Prayed about it in all earnestness, and relieved a resounding NO! When in reality all they did was post about doing such a thing,"

AGAIN others are accused of "lying about their personal testimony" while the mormon accuser claims his own testimony to be sacrosanct.

It is mind-boggling that a mormon claims the authority and right to question a non-mormon about the method of the non-mormon gaining a testimony of the falsness of the book of mormon as if it were anyone's business! DU states: " I just want to know if you prayed about the Book of Mormon or some thing else", which is a direct personal insinuation.

It is also mind-boggling that mormons can, time and again, discredit and denigrate the testimony of non-mormons in such a condescending manner, and believe that those who read these threads do not see the hypocrisy.

[SkyPilot]

Whoa! I count 33 on that list that were "wives."

Joe could have given this guy some competition in the "Guess How Many Women I Have Screwed" challenge.

[SkyPilot]

I shouldn't have used the word "screwed." I apolgize.

A better description (and more PC) would have been:

"Utilized Multiple Women For Selfish Erotic Pleasure."

[SkyPilot]

We have a mormon who has accused another of being in "ETERNAL PERIL" for supposedly questioning HIS testimony!

Well, if you are going to be 'god' someday - with your very own planet, with lots and lots of babes, don't you think you should have that kind of power?

I mean, really.....

[DelphiUser]

Actually I think you have that backwards. Mormons make from scripture whatever they need to support their deviations from the linear and very cohesive history of God and Christs’ actions and words.

You mean the linear and Cohesive history that has created literally thousands of Churches all damning each other to hell at some point, wars, inquisitions, purges, etc?

They bend the meanings to match the needs of their extreme hard turn from that history. I am finding that all very interesting and in some ways well done as I look through their material.

We do indeed take a hard right turn from the history of the church ever since the Trinity came along, it's not exactly something we are shy about.

So these basic concepts are not taken for granted, they are understood in truth and meaning as God intended them for the historic church.

If these basic concepts as you generically and un-specifically called them include the trinity, then you and I will just have to disagree.
A belief in the Trinity, requires that you ignore some of the plain and precious truths in the Bible, and deviate from the linear and very cohesive history in it to believe that God does weird stuff that makes no sense because he's God and we cannot Comprehend him.

Let me ask you a very simple question, one I hope you will truly think about.

If God is perfect, wouldn't he be able to explain himself in a way that did not leave us confused?

What is not understood is the mistaken interpretation made by the LDS. It is understandable why there would be misconceptions on the part of Christians over their interpretations, they are incorrect and do not match God's actions or words from the beginning of time.

Please understand, as an analyst, your sentence says that Mormons misunderstand Christians because Christians' interpretations are incorrect. I do not think this is what you meant to say. Pardon me for finding this humorous...

There is most definitely a disconnect between Mormons and "Orthodox Christians" Many Mormons do not even have a clue what "Orthodox Christians" are talking about, because they grew up and never were interested in learning what "Orthodox Christians" believed and now they are so steeped in their way that they cannot even understand "Orthodox Christians". Conversely most "Orthodox Christians" have no clue what Mormons believe, and those who investigate it the way we recommend tend to become Mormons and remove themselves from "Orthodox Christianity", leaving the only "Orthodox Christians" who think they know anything about us as the ones who oppose us and post lies and disinformation about us. The funny thing about this is many Antis' descriptions of what they think we are are exactly what they become to fight us. often they sound like Eliot Ness : "I have foresworn myself. I have broken every law I have sworn to uphold, I have become what I beheld and I am content that I have done right!"

to which I say "Yeah, well... You're not from Christ... Neither he nor his break the laws they are sworn to uphold"

I had just a few minutes...

[SkyPilot]

If God is perfect, wouldn't he be able to explain himself in a way that did not leave us confused?

He is perfect, and He provided His word.

It is called the Bible.

The "confusion" is of your own making by introducing false works such as the Book of Mormon, Doctrines and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price.

The above carry as much false weight as an L. Ron Hubbard novel.

[ejonesie22]

So in essences you freely admit God is not a perfect being, not all powerful, indeed he was once just a man as we are. I find your peers oft try and confuse that point. It is hard for me to understand how anyone can look at the universe and say all that was just made by some dude like us.

Sure is different that the God of the Bible. I never have seen once where God claimed himself to have been a man like us.

Anyways, God has explained himself, and we are not confused.

Some disagreements are introduced due to the element of freewill and/or the influence of the evil one. Most of that pertains to minor doctrinal differences and liturgical variances, but the message is the same be you Catholic, Orthodox, Methodist, Episcopal or Baptist. There have been times those differences have been whipped to flames by the evil one, and he enjoyed his bit, but in the end we have agreed.

Indeed I serve with individuals from those churches and others in several ecumenical ministries. So ask yourself this DU, if the various denominations really damned each other, could such ministries, operating with the blessings and participation of our clergy and other authorities, exists. Of course not. You are over playing your hand. Some leaders over the years have had harsh words, but the true family of Christ shares the same message and the same heart, no matter it's various colors.

Your hard turn is far more than reducing God down in power and denying the very obvious truth of the Trinity (and not understanding it)you have added a layer to the path of salvation and you have made yourselves future gods. There is nothing in the entire Judeo Christian linage that suggest that. If it were true and we are just hiding that, there would still be some record. Nothing escapes histories grasps when it comes to conflicting ideas.

As far as you “analyst bit”, I think I was clear, my English very plain, twisting that does little for me or your argument. Save the LDS rhetorical bit for the weak.

And I have never known an Orthodox Christian (in the classic sense as a denomination such as Greek or Eastern) to go Mormon, nor ever have heard of such. Indeed it would be the antithesis of everything they believe, and since they were there, their linage goes to the very caves that Paul visited in his time, I tend to see that they hold some sway. Now if you mean all Christian faiths that hold from the historic linage, then that maybe another mater, for there are always weak souls that are easily swayed from the truth even when it is in front of them. The evil one is a powerful force.

As far as steeped in their ways, I think that is what is holding the LDS together, momentum, that and the fertile ground of places overseas where they are less known. Facts are rapidly catching them, and all the sales tactics, rhetorical practice from cradle to grave and full color glossy brochures will not stem that tide. The “Meat” is getting out, and with talk against other faiths, getting your own planet where you can be god, masonic variations and other such delights, well, it has a funny taste.

Sadly, it is your own materials, the BOM and such, the writing of you leaders and other such articles that will do more than any “antis” can do. I know, I am reading them. A former member of you organization made an interesting comment to me just the other day at lunch as he was sharing ideas with me. He feels that the LDS will have a hard time in the information age. It appears he maybe very correct.

[greyfoxx39]

Nice post, jonesie!

As you say, "Indeed I serve with individuals from those churches and others in several ecumenical ministries", and I think you have mentioned something like the following item I found on another site:

"I work on Habitat for Humanity in my spare time. Christian Churches raise the money, do some of the work to supply affordable housing. I work side by side Lutherns, etc on these homes. They do it to help people and families get affordable housing.Habitat for Humanities even dedicates the site and the homes when they are finished. In their store to help raise money for the houses. they sell used/new donated items to customers. They tithe on their profits and send 10% overseas to help build homes there.

LDS Church. Build, build, build. Build a mall make a profit. Build this and build that. Make a profit. Tithe the people and what do they use the money for. Build, build, build. What is the LDS building for humanity? Churches and temples to make people happy.Nothing about making them live better.

In the words of Dickens, "it is a far, far better thing that I do do than I have ever done before." Guess which Church project brings me more happiness and joy?"

Now watch some outraged mormon jump in with inflated claims of mormon charitable works that can't be backed up with figures, citing wondrous works of mormons in disasters which were met and exceeded by works of members of many other churches.

[Tennessee Nana]

There’s nothing charitable about giving one year old food that you would not eat yourself to non-mormons...

About tithes and offerings...

God requires us to bring tithes and offerings, not to build great monuments to ourselves, but to provide for others..

The fact that only less than 1% of the billions of dollars the mormon cult takes in is ever spent for humanitarian or charitable giving by SLC, is disgraceful, and unGodly and criminal...

Mal 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

Mal 3:9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.

Mal 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that [there shall] not [be room] enough [to receive it].

Mal 3:11 And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the LORD of hosts.

Mal 3:12 And all nations shall call you blessed: for ye shall be a delightsome land, saith the LORD of hosts. Malachi 3:8-11

The mormon cult and their abominable beliefs and practices are accursed...

[ejonesie22]

Thursday night this past week I was at a meeting for the Prison Ministry that I serve. As I was reading DU’s post it struck me how "incomplete" his statement was. I was thinking of siting at the table that night, eating our potluck dinner we have at these meetings with a Catholic friend, and Episcopal Priest from Uganda, a Baptist minister, a fellow Methodist and a Presbyterian, all discussing various topics along with Jesus grace and love for us. We prayed at that table together to the same God, the same Christ.

Sounds like a holy war to me...

[SkyPilot]

Super post (#2,796).

Some highlights:

So in essences you freely admit God is not a perfect being, not all powerful, indeed he was once just a man as we are. I find your peers oft try and confuse that point. It is hard for me to understand how anyone can look at the universe and say all that was just made by some dude like us.

That happens when the "dude" (who they call "elohim" but it isn't the God of Abraham) was in search of lots of nookie, just like Joe.

In fact, they believe that same "god" had sex with Mary - LITERALLY.

Sure is different that the God of the Bible.

And then some!

I never have seen once where God claimed himself to have been a man like us.

Well, Christ did become a human being just like us, but He was born to be a sacrifice to us to save us. But, He lived a completely sinless life. Also, the next time a LDS admonishes you for speaking out about their false teaching by calling you "Un-Christ-like" - ask them how a sinless Christ called people "whited seplacers!" and "brood of vipers!" for their behavior and sins, and ask them how Christ was being "Un-Christ-like."

Anyways, God has explained himself, and we are not confused.

Amen.

As far as steeped in their ways, I think that is what is holding the LDS together, momentum, that and the fertile ground of places overseas where they are less known. Facts are rapidly catching them, and all the sales tactics, rhetorical practice from cradle to grave and full color glossy brochures will not stem that tide. The “Meat” is getting out, and with talk against other faiths, getting your own planet where you can be god, masonic variations and other such delights, well, it has a funny taste.

Absolutely. Absolutely.

As someone here on Free Republic mentioned months ago: "The Internet has not been a friend to the LDS cult."

Selling the "Real Estate" to heaven on distant planets is folly of epic proportions - but it is precisely what they are peddling.

Sadly, it is your own materials, the BOM and such, the writing of you leaders and other such articles that will do more than any “antis” can do. know, I am reading them. A former member of you organization made an interesting comment to me just the other day at lunch as he was sharing ideas with me. He feels that the LDS will have a hard time in the information age.

Hence, threads like this one by Grig - in an attempt to stop the bleeding.

They only hastened it. Why? Because God's Truth gets through.