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To: fortheDeclaration

We begin to scratch the dishonesty of this post by noting that the councils noted, of Toulouse and Tarragona, were not ecumenical councils binding on the whole church, but only regional councils, called during times of upheaval due to heretics. They were not binding outside of southern France and northern Spain; they had no effect on the translations of the Bible into English.

I’ll post more fully on the pre-Wyclif translations of the Bible later...


1,178 posted on 05/13/2008 11:46:59 PM PDT by Philo-Junius (One precedent creates another. They soon accumulate and constitute law.)
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To: Philo-Junius
We begin to scratch the dishonesty of this post by noting that the councils noted, of Toulouse and Tarragona, were not ecumenical councils binding on the whole church, but only regional councils, called during times of upheaval due to heretics. They were not binding outside of southern France and northern Spain; they had no effect on the translations of the Bible into English. I’ll post more fully on the pre-Wyclif translations of the Bible later...

During the Middle Ages prohibitions of books were far more numerous than in ancient times. Their history is chiefly connected with the names of medieval heretics like Berengarius of Tours, Abelard, John Wyclif, and John Hus. However, especially in the thirteenth and fourteen century, there were also issued prohibitions against various kinds of superstition writings, among them the Talmud and other Jewish books. In this period also, the first decrees about the reading of various translations of the Bible were called forth by the abuses of the Waldenses and Albigensians. What these decrees (e.g., of the synod of Toulouse in 1129, Tarragona in 1234, Oxford in 1408) aimed at was the restriction of Bible-reading in the vernacular.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03519d.htm

1,180 posted on 05/14/2008 5:11:19 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration ("Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people".-John Adams)
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To: Philo-Junius
We begin to scratch the dishonesty of this post by noting that the councils noted, of Toulouse and Tarragona, were not ecumenical councils binding on the whole church, but only regional councils, called during times of upheaval due to heretics. They were not binding outside of southern France and northern Spain; they had no effect on the translations of the Bible into English. I’ll post more fully on the pre-Wyclif translations of the Bible later...

During the Middle Ages prohibitions of books were far more numerous than in ancient times. Their history is chiefly connected with the names of medieval heretics like Berengarius of Tours, Abelard, John Wyclif, and John Hus. However, especially in the thirteenth and fourteen century, there were also issued prohibitions against various kinds of superstition writings, among them the Talmud and other Jewish books. In this period also, the first decrees about the reading of various translations of the Bible were called forth by the abuses of the Waldenses and Albigensians. What these decrees (e.g., of the synod of Toulouse in 1129, Tarragona in 1234, Oxford in 1408) aimed at was the restriction of Bible-reading in the vernacular.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03519d.htm

1,181 posted on 05/14/2008 5:26:51 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration ("Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people".-John Adams)
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To: Philo-Junius
And what does it matter the extent of their authority was only local, the fact that that such 'authority' existed should disgust anyone who loves freedom.

It is small wonder that the ecclesiastical authorities soon convened in the Synod of Oxford (1408) and forbade the publication and reading of unauthorized vernacular versions of the Scriptures, restricting the permission to read the Bible in the vernacular to versions approved by the ordinary of the place, or, if the case so require, by the provincial council.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15367a.htm#english

As for the pre-Wyclif translations, none were a complete Bible.

Wyclif's was the first translation of the entire Bible.

Tyndales was the first printed English Bible.

(3) Printed English Bibles We are now entering the period of printed English Scriptures. France, Spain, Italy, Bohemia, and Holland possessed the Bible in the vernacular before the accession of Henry VIII; in Germany the Scriptures were printed in 1466, and seventeen editions had left the press before the apostasy of Luther. No part of the English Bible was printed before 1525, no complete Bible before 1535, and none in England before 1538.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15367a.htm#english

Those are the facts, according to your own Roman Catholic sources.

1,182 posted on 05/14/2008 5:39:54 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration ("Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people".-John Adams)
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To: Philo-Junius
I don't think it's politic or accurate to call an error "dishonest". (No offense.)

I think some people don't get the distinction between a fact and an interpretation of a fact, and consequently fall into seeing some facts which confirm their prejudice and take it for proof.

Turn over any rock and skim any ofo the anti-Cahotlic posts and the constants are ignorance (either willful or inadvertent), a misconstruction of the facts, and a contempt for careful and deliberate reasoning.

1,183 posted on 05/14/2008 6:11:42 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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