LDS vs FLDS. Just for the record...

blogspot ^ | April 10th, 2008 | gab

[sevenbak]

Some Mormon women sing...

Some Mormon women dance...

Some Mormon women write scary stories...

Some Mormon women have a lot of money and really great hair...

I know hundreds of Mormon women. They do all kinds of different things and live all different kinds of lives.

This woman served as a leader in the Mormon church. She recently spoke to teenage girls worldwide. She encouraged them to stand up to peer pressure, strengthen their families and serve others. (Click here for more.)


None of the Mormon women I know look like this...

None of them are marrying off their teenage daughters and-- although some may joke about wanting a sister-wife (preferably one who is really fat & ugly, does bathrooms and changes diapers)--none of them really want to share their husband with anyone.

Furthermore...

Some Mormon guys can throw a ball...

Some Mormon guys yell at the ball...

Some Mormon guys make scary movies...

Some Mormon guys have a lot of money and really great hair...

I know hundreds of Mormon guys. They do all kinds of different things and live all kinds of different lives.

This is one of the leaders of the Mormon church. Last Sunday he spoke about honoring women, especially mothers, and gave advice to husbands and children about how to treat the women in their lives. (For the whole story, click here.)

None of the Mormon men I know look like this...

The Mormon men I know are honest and hard-working. They don't cheat, smoke, drink or gamble. And TRUST ME....the last thing any of them want is another wife.

[Colofornian]

Early on, Las Vegas casinos hired Mormons to handle their money because of that reputation for honesty. [stinkerpot]

FC, how about this statement?

[Osage Orange]

You don't know enough mormons.....

Just right off the top of my head....I can think of many absolute lying, cheating mormons.

No different than many Christians I know....

BTW, If all ya mormons think Napolean Dynamite was a scary movie....that's pretty scary. : )

[greyfoxx39]

Fully at least 2/3’s of claimed membership by the sect are made up of these folks.

Now, now, someone will pounce on you and say "2/3's have not resigned or been exed."..

I think included in the 2/3's figure are those who have resigned, been exed, AND those who haven't been active for years.

I know at least 40 baptized mormons who have either joined other churches or haven't set foot in a church for years and not formally resigned. Of my bishop grandfather's extended family, there are a very few of the original seven children who are today members of the LDS church.

Why do you think there is a big push on from SLC to "re-activate" the lost sheep? The ones who have, according to the new LDS president, "been offended, are too cheap to pay tithing, are desiring to drink, smoke and fornicate, or those who otherwise are "unworthy" and stay away in shame.

[Colofornian]

Nor do modern day Mormons practice or approve polygamy.

While this is a true statement of many contemporary Mormons, let it known that they are at odds with official Mormon doctrine and church-sanctioned temple ritual practices.

First of all, LDS leaders believe that the LDS will once again come to resemble the fLDS:

Deceased LDS apostle Bruce R. McConkie, wrote in the book Mormon Doctrine in 1966--a book approved at their highest levels (McConkie wrote an earlier version of the book which was NOT run by top leaders and which they indeed had some problems...these were "corrected" in the '66 version):

"Obviously the holy practice (of polygamy) will commence again after the Second Coming of the Son of Man and the ushering in of the millennium." (Mormon Doctrine, 1966 edition, see pp. 577-579 for context)

Did you see that? An LDS apostle who referenced polygamy as a "holy practice."

Secondly, we’ve all seen the Mormon bumper sticker, "families are forever." Since LDS believe marriage is forever. So if you were one of the 7 LDS polygamous "prophets"--or one of the other 63+ LDS general authorities who practiced polygamy in your lifetime--they believe all these folks are alive & well on another planet practicing "guess what?" polygamy!!! (LDS only believe earthly household polygamy was done away with "for time"--but not "for eternity."). [In fact, LDS still practice temple "serial-based monogamy for time leading to supposed eternal polygamy" in that a Mormon male, for example, can be "sealed for eternity" to more than one spouse...say in the case of a spouse who died and then he remarried...he may be sealed to both "for eternity" and LDS expect that person to be a polygamist once all parties die.]

Sandra Tanner: Source: http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/ldsleadersbelievepolygamyinheaven.htm

While church leaders no longer allow the practice of polygamy here on Earth, they do allow a living man to be sealed to another woman after the death of his wife, or after divorce. This leads to the obvious situation of establishing multiple sealings on Earth that, according to Mormonism, will necessitate polygamy in heaven. Writing in 1897 LDS Apostle Charles W. Penrose stated [my note: please note that 1897 is a "post-end polygamy manifesto year"]:

In the case of a man marrying a wife in the everlasting covenant who dies while he continues in the flesh and marries another by the same divine law, each wife will come forth in her order and enter with him into his glory ("Mormon" Doctrine Plain and Simple, or Leaves from the Tree of Life, by Charles W. Penrose, p.66, 1897, Salt Lake City, UT).

This doctrine was reaffirmed in October of 2007 at the funeral for the second wife of President Howard W. Hunter, the fourteenth President of the LDS Church. The Deseret News reported:

President Hinckley affirmed the eternal nature of the marriage between Sister [Inis] Hunter and the former church president, whose first wife, Claire Jeffs, died after a long battle with Alzheimer's disease and is now buried beside him in the Salt Lake Cemetery. Inis Hunter "will now be laid to rest on the other side," he said. "They were sealed under the authority of the Holy Melchizedek Priesthood for time and for all eternity," he said, recalling the marriage ceremony he performed for them in the Salt Lake Temple in April 1990. ("Sister Hunter's humor and cheerfulness remembered as she is laid to rest," Deseret News, Oct. 22, 2007).

Another example of plural sealings is Apostle Russell M. Nelson 's marriage in 2006 to a BYU professor. The BYU NewsNet for April 7, 2006 announced the temple marriage of Apostle Nelson, age 81, to Wendy Watson (see [link]). His first wife died in February of 2005 and this was the first marriage for his new wife. This would mean, according to LDS beliefs, that Nelson has two wives sealed to him for eternity.

[Colofornian]

A woman will be sealed (married) to only one man in eternity.

While this is true of any living Mormon woman, actually a deceased Mormon woman can be sealed "for eternity" to all the men she was ever married to...[Tell me how they would work out polyandry in the afterlife]

[Colofornian]

Westboro thinks they are the true church. In both cases, Baptists are generally ashamed that Westboro affiliates themselves with the Baptist faith and Mormons are generally ashamed that this bozo associates themselves with LDS.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find one familiar with this family to apply the term "Christian" to their actions. On the other hand, you have LDS FReeper apologists like Edward Watson who says the fLDS are "Christian"--and says so with a "Of course, they are Christian..."

[colorcountry]

That’s not true.

My mom was sealed to my dad. He died. She remarried a TBMormon who’s wife had also passed away.

Mom loved her second husband more than she loved my dad, but her first sealing could never be cancelled. She was not allowed to be sealed to the second.

[colorcountry]

I just found this on wikipedia.

Recent changes in church policy also allow women to be sealed to multiple men, but only after both she and her husband(s) are dead.[2]

^ a b LDS Church, Church Handbook of Instructions, (LDS Church, Salt Lake City, Utah, 1998), page 72, “Sealing Policies” [1].

[joebuck]

Both are just two sides of the same cultist coin.

[P-Marlowe]

....none of them [Mormon women] really want to share their husband with anyone.

In light of Doctrine and Covenants section 132, why would any of them want to be Mormons?

[greyfoxx39]

You just HAD to post that, didn’t you!.....BFfftttt!

[Colofornian]

What’s amazing is that I hear you guys slam Abraham, Jacob, ect. for being a adulterous cad instead of a chosen prophet of God. Incredible! [Sevenbak]

You would be quite hard-pressed to come up with any verse in Genesis that says God told Abram or Jacob to take another wife or surrogate wife. In fact, Sarah’s child was the supernaturally-based “child of promise” who is free (Gal. 4:23,26, 28) in which faith was exercised; Hagar’s child, Ishmael, was the natural (Gal. 4:23,29) child of slavery (Gal. 4:25-26) who would persecute the “child of promise” (Gal. 4:29). [9/11 ring a bell?]

I would also compare the surrogate women of Genesis 16 and Gen. 30 to a hypothetical like a state that frowns upon polygamy, but say, didn't have exact laws to deal with it. It would be "tolerated." Once a state has a law on the books, then the state has been quite "specific."

In the earliest cases of sleeping with "the help," and with the Leah-Rachel matter, God had not yet placed "a law on the books," so to speak. "Thou shalt not commit adultery" came later (Exodus 20). Certainly, though, God's will was already quite plain on the positive side (Genesis 2:24). One man. One wife. One flesh. Three women + 1 man does not = "one flesh."

Please note that Abram’s behavior was pre-Gen. 17 covenant-with-God. Certainly, Biblical pre-covenant men were often trying to "do right" by God (even Saul-Paul's persecution of Christians was zealously done in God's name). Still these were not yet "transformed" men. I suggest you take a look at Gen. 17:1-2...
Verse 1: God was tired of Abram being "blame-able" & God wanted a "blameless" patriarch. So he told Abram, "I am Almighty God; walk before me and be blameless." (Gen. 17:1) This was AFTER the Hagar sleepover of Gen. 16. Now why would God particularly emphasize blamelessness at this juncture in Abram's life? Why? Because Abram had been relying upon other means of reproductive multiplication--other means than God's promise!
Gen. 17:2, where GOD promises to be the Multiplier--not Hagar. Hagar, as Paul says in Gal. 4, is representative of man's slave-ridden way of trying to accomplish God's promise. (It's almost like Mormons intentionally stayed away from reading Gal. 4:21-31 because of concern how pathetic Paul presents Hagar).

What I have found is that Mormons make a “worthiness” assumption…God blessed Old Testament figures. Therefore, these folks must have been “blessed-worthy.” (In other words, they think they “earned” God’s favor & grace with their righteousness.

But that’s wrong-headed thinking. It represents a viewpoint where folks keep thinking they’ve got God in their pocket as long as they “do righteous things”—obligating Him to bless you. (Almost like pushing a button that forces God to do something beneficiary for them.)..Such folks think God blessed Abraham for his righteousness because he would be righteous in the future... (The reality God blessed Abram so that Abraham would be righteous in the future...a big difference where God receives all the honor & glory instead of man being a self-centered glory hog!!!)

[Colofornian]

Polygamy, when first announced to the Saints, was an offensive, disgusting doctrine, difficult to accept.

I think it was historian Juanita Brooks who actually said that the early Mormon leader reaction to polygamy was like a man in the candy store.

[Colofornian]

Seven, this is at least the second time you have posted this exact cut & paste apologetic, which I believe I saw as a FAIRLDS original (is it not?)

And each time, you have the audacity to cut & paste this paragraph:

If the writings of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, John Taylor, Wilford Woodruff, Heber C. Kimball, George Q. Cannon and many others cannot persuade someone that they were honest men (even if mistaken) then one should sincerely question whether such a person is capable of looking charitably upon any Mormon.

And what was Cannon’s “worldview” of polygamy?

At a stake conference over 100 years ago, mainstream LDS leader George Q. Cannon of the First Presidency said: The people of the world do not believe in breeding, but we do. So the people of the world will die out and we will fill the whole earth. I admit those raising children by plural wives are not complying with man-made laws, but in the sight of God they are not sinning, as there is no sin in it. (George Q. Cannon, Sanpete Stake conference, Sept., 1899. Smoot Investigation, Vol. 1, p. 9.) [BTW, fLDS still cite this LDS source!!]

What was Heber C. Kimball’s “worldview” of polygamy?

Well first of all, Kimball was the one who offered up his 14 year old daughter, Helen Mar Kimball, as a “proxy” wife instead of giving his own wife to Joseph Smith. (Smith had demanded the wives of all the top-notch LDS leaders).

LDS missionaries were warned by LDS apostles like Heber C. Kimball, who wound up with 40 wives, not to monopolize the female converts coming to Utah. "The Mormon leaders,” says the authors of Changing World of Mormonism, “were evidently worried that the missionaries would take the best women.

Kimball: (Member of the First Presidency), admonished: 'I say to those who are elected to go on missions...remember they are not your sheep: they belong to Him that sends you. Then do not make a choice of any of those sheep; do not make selections before they are brought home and put into the fold. You under stand that? Amen.'" (Changing World, p. 225, citing Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.256).

From the same source: "Stanley P. Hirshon adds this instructive information: Kimball always kept an eye out for romance. 'Brethren,' he instructed some departing missionaries, 'I want you to understand that it is not to be as it has been heretofore. The brother missionaries have been in the habit of picking out the prettiest women for themselves before they get here, and bringing on the ugly ones for us; hereafter you have to bring them all here before taking any of them, and let us all have a fair shake'" (The Lion of the Lord, New York, 1969, pp.129-30).

Needless to say: Kimball, not satiated with 40 wives, had been told by Joseph Smith there were hundreds more awaiting them in the celestial kingdom. (Sounds like the Muslim 72-virgin “promise” times 3, 4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12….)

[Colofornian]

Westboro thinks they are the true church. In both cases, Baptists are generally ashamed that Westboro affiliates themselves with the Baptist faith and Mormons are generally ashamed that this bozo associates themselves with LDS.

A poor comparison for at least 2 reasons...

The most important consideration is when you look at the defining characteristic of these false "churches":

For the fLDS, it's polygamy.
And what supposed "Scripture" & doctrine backs that up? (D&C 132).
Is that mainline Mormon "Scripture?" (Answer: Yes)

Now compare Phelps' Westboro.
What defining characteristic is there for this group?
For the Phelps, it's picketing.
Is that mainline Christian "Scripture?" (Answer: NO!)

Secondly the Phelps is better defined as one family than a "church." (That's about all it's "church" is made up of).

[MHGinTN]

As my granddaughter used to say when she was three, “I sorry. I sorry.” NOT

[SENTINEL]

"Mormons are the nicest people you’ll meet."

Yeah right, until you have a legitimate question about something Joseph Smith or Brigham Young (or other "prophets")....Then your very life and well being are in jeopardy. They all swear an oath to "AVENGE THE BLOOD OF THE PROPHETS, UNDER PUNISHMENT OF DEATH" in the temple. They run thier finger under their throat to simulate a knife as part of it. You can literally go from temple recommend holder to "HERETIC" or "APOSTATE" with a single honest question about a historical fact.

THE LDS CHURCH IS ASHAMED OF THE REAL JOSEPH SMITH AND BRIGHAM YOUNG SO THEY HAVE REWRITTEN THEIR HSITORY. I CAN TELL YOU HAVING BEEN THERE. THAT VERY MUCH OF THE FLDS DOCTRINE IS TAUGHT TO THE HIGHER LEVELS OF THE LDS MEN, WHILE THEY ARE SEPARATE FROM THE WOMEN. THEY ALSO TEACH THEY WILL OVERTHROW THE US GOVERNMENT SOMEDAY AND THE PROPHET WILL BE THE NEW PRESIDENT.

[EverOnward]

Thanks for the ping. It won’t change anyone’s agenda, but it’s nice to know you’re out there doing your best to clarify reality.

[EverOnward]

Thanks for linking “Come Thou Font of Every Blessing” — what a wonderful perfornace! What a wonderful university.

[FastCoyote]

“Early on, Las Vegas casinos hired Mormons to handle their money because of that reputation for honesty. [stinkerpot] “

Colorfornian[FC, how about this statement? ]

It is quite true. Mormons were known as loyal honest sheep, they’d look the other way. You have to remember, Vegas Casinos were built by the mob, so the Mormons who worked in the casinos were complicit.

And how would I know? Well, because its my business to know the dealmakers of Vegas and I’m actually involved in a casino transaction now, though it is a far cry from what it used to be.

For an example of an “upstanding” Mormon now doing jail time for bribery, look up Reid’s good pal, Commisioner “Dario Herrera”, who was taking bribes and lapdances not only from Titty bar owner Mike Galardi, but also was on a no-show work stipend from Hud. (I could say more, but leave it there). Reid primed Herrera to run for Congress, but it all fell apart during the GSting scandal.

Look, people have died around the shenanigans of mafia mayor Oscar Goodman and his good buddy Harry Reid. In fact, a fine Mormon, Jay Bingham, stepped aside just so Oscar could run.

So yeah, Vegas Mormons, like the FLDS, are pure as driven snow.