Posted on 04/29/2008 6:06:04 AM PDT by restornu
Ancient writings unearthed in the last century and a half, primarily in Egypt, are lending support to doctrines and teachings of Joseph Smith, founder of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, a Brigham Young University professor of antiquities said Sunday.
C. Wilford Griggs, who has written extensively on Egypt and is working on excavating Christian burial grounds in Egypt, said scholars are now admitting that "Joseph Smith got into the antiquities" before experts in the field began their discoveries, but they won't accept his explanation.
Smith, an uneducated farm boy, claimed he translated the Book of Mormon from ancient gold plates using instruments given him by an angel, but scholars are refusing to believe that, Griggs said during a fireside, "Joseph Smith and the Egyptian Connection," at the Pleasant Grove Manila Stake Center. Some of the ancient writings have been found in the past few years.
Many scholars are now admitting that the book accepted as scripture by church members is an ancient book, but as one scholar of antiquities told Griggs, he had no problem with the gold plates and Smith's story would be acceptable "if you'd get rid of that angel."
Anciently, the fountain of Christian knowledge was Egypt and the Mediterranean region and for about 1,000 years 90 percent of the people were in the faith "until they were converted to Islam by the sword," he said.
"We are being flooded with (ancient) writings," Griggs said, describing many as coming from the biblical New Testament period. Many of the writings, now totaling about 8,000, are on papyri, but others are on metal plates. None are exactly alike, which lends historical credence to the finds.
The apostles scattered throughout the known world and established pockets of Christianity after the time of Jesus Christ, including Egypt, he said. Some of the best early Christian records were found in Egypt, where they survived because of the climate.
The traditional concept that the Bible is complete came about 400 A.D., he said. Before then Christians knew that many other writings existed.
Many of the Christian teachings found in Egyptian digs that are shared in common with Smith's teachings have to do with the temple "and how the heavens can be open to us," Griggs said.
Among those findings is the teaching of baptism by proxy for folks who have died without learning of Christ and his gospel, which centers on the resurrection.
Anciently, baptism was known as a "sealing" to go to heaven, he said. The word "sealing" is used today in LDS temples in similar fashion.
Most of the writings which have now been found were secret anciently and held back from the people until they proved their worthiness.
Some speak of the potential of their divinity, also a common theme Smith taught, which the first LDS prophet said was given to him by revelation.
"Several of the gospels ... show that revelation was alive and well in the ancient world. Revelation was a keystone," Griggs said.
Yet centuries later, revelation and temples were denounced by religious leaders, including Augustine, as unnecessary.
I am Christian. My response of "and the logical follow up to that is, "no, they aren't", meant that "no", I don't consider Mormon's to be Christians.
I don't know who was comparing who to Caiaphas to what or whoever or wherefore, anymore. Like I said. I'm thick that way.
Just like only Tolkien could trace the linguistic roots of Elvish, link it to Western Gothic, and so forth.
This is like Trekkies comparing Vulcan to Romulan. The whole thing could have great inner consistency, but it really doesn't connect to anything "out there."
So do most Dr Phil viewers.
Good one!
As an analogy: there are many variants of English, including Anglo-Frisian, West Saxon and Middle English, as well as Jamaican Patois, Nigerian Pidgin, etc. If I make one up and call it Wataugan, it does not mean that there was ever an actual nation, race, or tribe, in a place called Watauga or anyplace else, who actually spoke or wrote Wataugan.
It is plausible that there could be such a language, but nobody could prove that it actually existed. So unless you come up with texts outside of Mormon Scriptures which pass all the commonly-accepted paleographic sniff tests, nobody has proven that "Nephite" actually existed.
I can decode two of those. I see a two-button mouse and a birthday cake.
***ANYBODY???
Like this fine looking fellow???***
He gets purtier and purtier each decade. Soon he will be so purty that the followers of Elizabeth Clare Prophet will steal him and declare him an “Ascended Master” along with St. Germaine, Jesus, Budda, and a slew of others.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascended_master
There are no closed threads on FR. If you wish a closed thread go elsewhere.
Read your tagline and you've got your answer.
***There are many benefits that come with becoming a religious despot including the possession of as many young girls as it takes to satisfy one’s whim.***
It’s good to be da King!—Mel Brooks
Big ol’ pin-a-ling-a-ling if you haven’t seen this ... the ‘Caractors’ Smith tried to pass off as from the ‘golden plates’ are in fact shorthand from Irish/Gaelic writing. For the short version, when you get to the link go to the sixth Part and at the end is a post script, but the visuals are most damning of this charlatan, Smith.
Hi, remember me? Anyway, we went to San Diego to see the Dead Sea Scrolls exhibit. When you walked in the room where the scrolls were displayed, you could feel the presence of the Holy Ghost. It was wonderful! Anyway, one of the scrolls is called “the Alma Scroll” and is of particular interest to LDS folks. It is the first time ever (outside the Book of Mormon) where the name of Alma shows up as a man’s name. In the scroll, “Alma son of Judah” is mentioned. Furthermore, one of the items on display, found with the Dead Sea Scrolls, is a copper scroll, very well preserved.
I was hoping this wouldn’t turn into a bash Mormon thread.
Saundra, how will you explain the ‘Caractors’ Smith tried to pass off as ‘reformed Egyptian’ from the ‘plates’ he claimed to have since they are clearly Gaelic shorthand invented in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries? Does it even register with you that Smith was a fraud?
I think that is what confuses people.
In the Methodist Church, we never talk about whether the Methodist church is “right”. You’ll never hear someone say “Methodism is true”. You’ll never hear anyone testify to the truth of Methodism. We just don’t feel the need to justify the church. And you’ll rarely hear anyone mention the founder, John Wesley. Some of his biggest teachings would not be welcome in the church today.
I don’t have to explain anything to you. Joseph Smith was a great Prophet. He predicted that his name would be known for good and evil. I know his name for good.
Okay, you don’t have to answer to me for anything, but how do you reconcile the fraud Smith perpetrated?
Jesus Christ and His Atoning sacrifice was preached by Joseph Smith and continues to be preached today in the LDS Church.
What galls me is that Brigham Young, at the very least, covered up those murders for more than a dozen years. Most likely he ordered their murders. He ruled with an iron fist. Stuff like that didn’t happen without his blessing. Blamed the Indians, then finally gave up one guy as the scapegoat.
To this day Brigham Young is revered, he has the Mormon Church University named after him. It is revolting.
He was an evil bastard, yet some will defend him and all his evil and declare him a man of God.
Many scholars are now admitting that the book accepted as scripture by church members is an ancient book
In KJV english too - go figger
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