Posted on 04/27/2008 3:36:18 AM PDT by markomalley
The Catholic Church teaches that in the Eucharist, the communion wafer and the altar wine are transformed and really become the body and blood of Jesus Christ. Have you ever met anyone who has found this Catholic doctrine to be a bit hard to take?
If so, you shouldn't be surprised. When Jesus spoke about eating his flesh and drinking his blood in John 6, his words met with less than an enthusiastic reception. "How can this man give us his flesh to eat? (V 52). "This is a hard saying who can listen to it?" (V60). In fact so many of his disciples abandoned him over this that Jesus had to ask the twelve if they also planned to quit. It is interesting that Jesus did not run after his disciples saying, "Don't go — I was just speaking metaphorically!" How did the early Church interpret these challenging words of Jesus? Interesting fact. One charge the pagan Romans lodged against the Christians was cannibalism. Why? You guessed it. They heard that this sect regularly met to eat human flesh and drink human blood. Did the early Christians say: "wait a minute, it's only a symbol!"? Not at all. When trying to explain the Eucharist to the Roman Emperor around 155AD, St. Justin did not mince his words: "For we do not receive these things as common bread or common drink; but as Jesus Christ our Savior being incarnate by God's word took flesh and blood for our salvation, so also we have been taught that the food consecrated by the word of prayer which comes from him . . . is the flesh and blood of that incarnate Jesus."
Not many Christians questioned the real presence of Christ's body and blood in the Eucharist till the Middle Ages. In trying to explain how bread and wine are changed into the body and blood of Christ, several theologians went astray and needed to be corrected by Church authority. Then St. Thomas Aquinas came along and offered an explanation that became classic. In all change that we observe in this life, he teaches, appearances change, but deep down, the essence of a thing stays the same. Example: if, in a fit of mid-life crisis, I traded my mini-van for a Ferrari, abandoned my wife and 5 kids to be beach bum, got tanned, bleached my hair blonde, spiked it, buffed up at the gym, and took a trip to the plastic surgeon, I'd look a lot different on the surface. But for all my trouble, deep down I'd still substantially be the same ole guy as when I started.
St. Thomas said the Eucharist is the one instance of change we encounter in this world that is exactly the opposite. The appearances of bread and wine stay the same, but the very essence or substance of these realities, which can't be viewed by a microscope, is totally transformed. What was once bread and wine are now Christ's body and blood. A handy word was coined to describe this unique change. Transformation of the "sub-stance", what "stands-under" the surface, came to be called "transubstantiation."
What makes this happen? The power of God's Spirit and Word. After praying for the Spirit to come (epiklesis), the priest, who stands in the place of Christ, repeats the words of the God-man: "This is my Body, This is my Blood." Sounds to me like Genesis 1: the mighty wind (read "Spirit") whips over the surface of the water and God's Word resounds. "Let there be light" and there was light. It is no harder to believe in the Eucharist than to believe in Creation. But why did Jesus arrange for this transformation of bread and wine? Because he intended another kind of transformation. The bread and wine are transformed into the Body and Blood of Christ which are, in turn, meant to transform us. Ever hear the phrase: "you are what you eat?" The Lord desires us to be transformed from a motley crew of imperfect individuals into the Body of Christ, come to full stature.
Our evangelical brethren speak often of an intimate, personal relationship with Jesus. But I ask you, how much more personal and intimate can you get? We receive the Lord's body into our physical body that we may become Him whom we receive! Such an awesome gift deserves its own feast. And that's why, back in the days of Thomas Aquinas and St. Francis of Assisi, the Pope decided to institute the Feast of Corpus Christi.
That does not follow logically, not at all.
And as a sidenote, I’m not aware of there EVER being a language called “Roman.”
When you are through playing games and are willing to provide proof or references to your claims we can continue.
And is it more likely that a fisherman would be more comfortable conversing in his native Aramaic or classical Greek?
So what? So it was Latin, yet no one knows today what the original Roman language sounded like, they can only guess. The various dialects spoken in Italy and the world today, is the slang language of the common people, not anyway close to the original taught in schools.
Either you missed the point completely, or you are trying to ignore it in hope it will go away.
Do you think those Aramaic words in the New Testament were added in at random, or because of necessity?
No, there is one phrase used for millinea.....abracadabra..... magic
As Scripture declares, NONE IS RIGHTEOUS, NO, NOT ONE. (from post 424.)
With this:
Scripture makes of Enoch a particularly special case.
Enoch was not saved by his own righteousness. No one is.
Enoch was saved as all OT and NT saints are saved -- by Christ's righteousness mercifully imputed to them by God's grace alone through faith alone.
By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh. By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith. By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went... Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised. Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable. These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth... By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come. By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff. By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones. By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment. By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter... Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward. By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible. Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them. By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned. By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days. By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace. And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets: Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions..." -- Hebrews 11:3-8,11-13,17,20-33"Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
There is now and has always been only one means to salvation -- by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ.
That's what I'm thinking...
No need to misdirect. I just don't like to retread ground that has been so thoroughly covered by others... and there's really no way to do justice on this forum. If you really want an exhaustive conversation on the subject, you can read here.
I'm always astounded at how fervently you guys can deny the painfully obvious.
LOL
You’ve obviously never studied under different Latin teachers and heard the pronunciation they can come up with
Finally, someone on the Protestant side who will admit that God can, and did, preserve some from error by His Grace. What is your view of Jesus’s Holy Mother Who was recognized as Full of Grace when the Archangel came to call?
Matthew 4:18
Mark 3:16
Luke 6:14
Well, there they go again... ignoring Books of the Bible. /Ronald Reagan
I know the reformed practice is to ignore Bible verses, but why do you want to ignore these?
However, that grace does not exempt Mary from the stain of original sin. Nor did it permit her to somehow magically levitate bodily into heaven as the RCC declared in the 19th century.
Likewise, Mary is not anyone's "co-redeemer" or "dispensatrix of all grace." The very notion that Mary is a "co-redeemer" blasphemes the word of God and the Holy Spirit.
Thank you for sharing your own personal interpretation of Scripture.
So all the Jews spoke dual languages??? Jewish in the Synagogues and Aramaic on the street??? Or did they just have a Jewish missal???
Peter's name was Simon...That's a Hebrew (Jewish) name...If Aramaic was their actual language, his name would already have been Cephas...
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.