By your measure ,I suppose that you must find it really amazing that Christianity was able to spread through extreme persecution without the fully canonized Bible for hundreds of years
Not at all. In fact it is extreme persecution that hones the edge of the Word.
The reality IS that God gave His Gospel orally first. The Apostles gave it to others orally first, who shared it with the community at large. This was written down and shared with the future communities. The Bible is not ever shown as something given to each individual of the community. If you want to understand how the early Church did things, you would know that they complied with the leaders of the community.Read Acts of the Apostles,God did not hand out scrolls to everyone
Very true, my FRiend, in every aspect. Even today the Gospel is brought to people by preaching and outreach. That is true.
But it is incorrect to imply that there is something wrong with the people owning the Word (if that is your intention). I know with every fiber of my heart that had it been possible to distribute the Word by written scrolls back in the day of the early evangelists, there is little doubt that they would have done so!
Approved, written Scripture is a certain tool and removes the lion's share of heresies. If one must resign oneself to working within the boundaries of the Holy Word, It becomes very difficult to promote extreme heresy.
The fact of the matter is that it was dreadfully impractical to give every believer the written Word back in their day. There was no means to do so. That is why what scripture they were able to produce was treated with such discipline and care.
Yet, because the Church had singular authority, because it controlled the dissemination of information, because it controlled the education of it's priests and clergy, and thereby controlled the information, translation of information, and interpretation of information, there exists the very real possibility that the monolithic hierarchy thereof could be mislead, could be turned, could be tempted to alter the basis of that information to further it's own ambitions, or in it's ignorance, promote heresy unknowingly.
Would one be amazed that a corporate structure, given fifteen hundred years of sole and monopolistic power, and having full control of it's destiny, with power over kings and countries, their armies and their peoples, might become corrupted by those who rise to the top of such a structure?
That was the accusation as leveled upon the Church by those attempting to reform her as well they should, as noted by the listed grievances they laid claim to.
The printing press put the Holy Word in the hands of God's people for the first time ever. Not only did it serve to expose the heresies and vanities of the Church, but it also served to meter the influence of the Church, Roman, Reformed, or otherwise, in matters of authority, dissemination, translation, and interpretation, changing forever the ability of any organized structure to have a sole and unfettered monopoly in such matters. That is GOOD.
At the same time, it has enabled the unlimited access of the people to the direct, and relatively unfiltered Word of the Living God. It has allowed devotion and seeking of Truth to move forward to the finest increment, and at the greatest speed, and all in the hands of those that God has meant the Word to get to in the very first place- Each and every single one of us.
No, my FRiend, while preaching and community still serve as the spear point of evangelism, It is the written Word of God which is, should be, and always and forever will be the very backbone of authority. Who can claim wisdom above those Words? who can lay claim above the claims of Holy Jehovah and His Christ?
Peace be with you.
Whatever can you mean! roamer! RC folks are DIFFERENT THAN OTHER HUMANS! We live in the lap of Magnificent Magical Earth-Mother Mary. She, with her gracous lap and nurturing bosom keep us provisioned and saintly all the live long day. We'd never ever, ever, ever fall for such political hideocies as murdering far and wide in the name of THE CROSS. We'd never be seduced into torturing people for simple faith and belief in God and Scripture. We'd never consign South American native tribes to slave mongers for expedience reasons. Noooooo sireeeeee. We've always been as pure as the driven snow ever since Christ bowed and kissed Peter's ring as a sign of how foundationally great that fiesty reactionary pebble would come to be.
I mean the whole idea that RC's could remotely fall prey in the least respect to the idolatry and blasphemy tendencies of other mortal humans is just BEYOND comprehension. RC's will never be able to wrap their minds around anything less than their abject inherent saintliness. Besides all that . . .
We have our plastic Magnificent Magical Earth-Mother Mary's and a whole host of 'spiritual aids;' rituals; doctrines of men; doctrines of demons and the like to keep us as pure as Mary's hanky. What more could we possibly hope for!
When we get to Heaven, we may make a courtesy call on Jesus but it will be Mary's lap we eternally sit in, staring mindlessly at her hypnotic eyes forever.
Join us, The Soma is delicious and a great boost to the mindless purity of our dogmatic rituals; our devoted appreciation of our Rubber Scriptures, rubber histories, rubber dictionaries . . . Come on along . . . the ride is serenely mindless and sooooo comforting as Mary sooths away all life's struggles with her magical hanky!
This probably should be freepmail, but I hardly ever use it, but let me say that was truly a beautiful and inspiring post.
Thank you.
INDEED.
Christ said to satan . . .
IT IS WRITTEN . . .
NOT
"Mommy said . . ."
or
"Mommy's Magicsterical said . . ."
Blessings,
Most excellent post. Regarding the corporate structure and its consequences, true for any church.
Many churches largely fits what has been described as a “Traditional Church”, within the evangelical landscape. This is a church which appeals to the world with programs and door to door evangelism; concludes sermons by inviting people to walk the aisle or accept Jesus; proclaiming that Jesus longs for a personal relationship with each person and all one must do is to invite Him into his heart.
This model, along with those describing “Seeker Sensitive” and “Missional”, starts with a secondary question – “How can we reach the world?” This is a good question, but it’s not primary. The primary question is, “How do we worship?” Worship is primary because God is primary. Programs that only give the illusion of honoring God exist because churches lose their primary focus – which is to be on the Lord, not His creation.
A 4th model is described, “The Godward Church” – A group of people gather in a room. One of them stands up, opens a Bible and says, “This is what God says.” He explains the text and how it should affect one’s life. The church sings, prays, shares the bread and the cup, and goes home. Not very market savvy. Not very exciting. But the Word of God comes with power, the Holy Spirit, and deep conviction. Consciences are pierced, lives changed. People go home worshiping God by hating sin, loving one another, and proclaiming the gospel to their neighbors. A Godward church is a worshiping church, which will make it a supernaturally attractive church; distinct like salt and bright like fire. The people begin to look like – sons and daughters of God. That’s most attractive – and it starts with hearing the Word of God.
(I’ve taken the preceding church descriptions from a report from 9Marks located at http://involve.9marks.org/site/DocServer/2007_Report_Card.pdf?docID=281).
Most churches were once small flocks with shepherds. As the pastors taught the Word and fed the sheep, some small flocks grew to become mega-churches. These mega-churches often grew to the point and by methods such that there was no longer a flock, but a herd. There were so many sheep and more than a few goats in the herd that the shepherd had no choice but to manage it by turning the church into a corporation.
As everyone knows, churches, when they become corporations have to operate like a corporation not a church. In the world, people in corporations are always looking for position and leaders exert control. The only way one can be successful in climbing the corporate ladder is to be loyal to the corporation and the corporate president. As was rightly taught (in my church) in early 2007, the church is not a corporation and should not be operated as such. ‘Tis sad for me, that we do not appear to follow the Biblical teachings oft presented.
I'm not implying that,and I would add that I'm certain that there are many,many loving non-catholic Christians who read the Bible and love others unconditionally,thus being guided by the Holy Spirit.
That said,there are others who read the Bible and use there OWN or follow other heretical beliefs that the church has condemned throughout the centuries, such as denying the Divinity of Christ.
What you seemingly fail to recognize is that if the Church did not have singular authority through the centuries that these types of heresies would have run rampant.
After the reformation all of these heresies and more continue to come back and grow because there is no singular authority in protestantism other than private interpretations of the Bible.
Keep in mind ,Dear friend, that I'm not blaming the Bible.
I'm saying this is due to lack of authority regarding consistent interpretations leading to errors in Faith and Morals
“”Would one be amazed that a corporate structure, given fifteen hundred years of sole and monopolistic power, and having full control of it's destiny, with power over kings and countries, their armies and their peoples, might become corrupted by those who rise to the top of such a structure?””
I think you have been sadly influenced and misinformed by enlightenment and early American though and history
Here is an extremely accurate article written By LT Col James Bogle
http://distributist.blogspot.com/2007/01/states-obligation-to-recognize-and.html
“”The printing press put the Holy Word in the hands of God's people for the first time ever.””
There were also many well documented errors in the those translated KJV’s as well.
Take a look at the errors that continue to this day
The battle for the Bible
http://www.worldmag.com/articles/424
Changing God's words
http://www.worldmag.com/articles/10357
Rewritten Bible banishes saints
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/03/15/nbible15.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/03/15/ixhome.html
Publisher plans gender-neutral version of Bible
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2002/01/28/new-bible.htm
‘Largest’ Christian Publisher Zondervan, is a Division of HarperCollins, which Publishes the Satanic Bible
http://truthinheart.com/Zondervan.htm
These are a bit old from my days working on the dangers of the New Age Movement, but you get the gist,and the printing of Bible's is not as rosy as one might think