Mary and the Problem of Christian Unity

Coming Home Network ^ | Kenneth J. Howell, Ph. D.

[BlueDragon]

Thank you for your assistance.

[trisham]

Or one might say that some here are being overly interested in the physical life of our Lord's mother. Some might find that unseemly.

[Rutles4Ever]

No matter how many times you declare it, God has no mother.

Then Jesus, Who had a mother, was not God.

[stfassisi]

Heck, you can go even further back. Try the Gospel of Luke. The Magnificat wasn’t just thought up by Luke. It was most likeley a song of praise that the earliest of Christians composed on behalf of Mary, based on its proximity to other “songs” in Scripture of similar thrust, and Luke’s reliance on eyewitnesses in writing the Gospel. What it boils down to is this: Christians were venerating Mary while she was still alive, and for Luke, one who was so close to St. Paul, to include it in his Gospel says a lot about her esteem among them. To deny that the early Church honored Mary does injury to the Holy Spirit, her Spouse, who inspired Luke to include this fact in his Gospel.

Excellent point,Dear friend

I wish you a Blessed day!

[RobRoy]

>>With all due respect Dear Brother,you are basing your beliefs on your OWN interpretations and placing them above the Saints Interpretations ,some of who decided Bible canon<<

No, I am choosing which other mens interpretations are supported by scripture and which are not. I will not merely believe what another man sez because he knows more than me. Most of the followers of Jim Jones fall into that camp.

>>But hey, I guess you know more that Blessed Saint Athansius?<<

Probably not. But I didn’t know more than Jim Jones either (at the time) but I used my God given brain and prayer to interpret his words within the context of the bible.

Athansius was a mere man like me. He was not the end all. His words were not God’s words by default.

I do not blindly follow the teachings of any man for ultimately, they are not responsible for my relationship with Christ. I am.

[Rutles4Ever]

It’s a mystery to mankind - how God came in the flesh to live among men to save us from sin.

Amazing, you can give faithful assent to the Incarnation, but not Mary's motherhood of God? Are not all things possible with God?

[Petronski]

That post didn’t interpret Scripture.

Of course it did. It called each of several Biblical Catholic teachings a "lie."

It called into light several spurious lies taught by the RCC that contribute to the deification of Mary within that organization.

Now there's a false statement. You play "the Game" very well.

[RobRoy]

>>Or one might say that some here are being overly interested in the physical life of our Lord’s mother. Some might find that unseemly.<<

That point is certainly not lost on me.

Some would imply that her having relations with Joseph would have somehow been “wrong” or a sin. Scripture clearly contradicts that. She was his wife. He was given strict instructions to keep his hands off UNTIL Jesus was born. Anyone who believes that meant for the rest of their life has no understanding of language, human nature, nor the biblical instruction for married people.

They are in some weird “dogma bubble”.

[sitetest]

Dear Rutles4Ever,

Part of the difficulty is that we live in an age where most folks reject anything that is not material - whether they realize it or not.

Thus, someone says that being one’s mother means that one could not have existed prior to one’s conception. As if the mother and the father are the entire progenitors of the child. But that's not true.

We all have souls. Our parents did not bring our souls into existence. God did. Our parents only gave us our physical body, not our souls.

Yet, just because my mother didn't give me my soul, but only my human body, I don't refuse to call her my mother. We don't say, either, that she is the mother of my body but not of my soul, because mothers are mothers of entire persons, not of pieces thereof. My mother is mother of all of me, body and soul, even if she didn't produce all of me.

Similarly it is with Mary. It's absolutely true that she had nothing to do with “creating” the Divine Nature of Jesus. Yet, she is the mother of the entire person, Jesus Christ, and He is God. Thus, she is the Mother of God.

But the subtle materialism of the age obscures this truth, and makes people fall back into the ancient heresy of Nestorianism.

sitetest

[Petronski]

No matter how many times you declare it, God has no mother.

Jesus just beamed down to the stable, eh?

[Rutles4Ever]

Same to you.

[Petronski]

This thread is just dripping with Nestorian heresy (among others).

[roamer_1]

Perhaps I can show you that typology was why the early Christian's KNEW Jesus was God?

But your own evidence betrays you my FRiend! The theme of the "Son of GOD" is declared, no, shouted from the very bowels of the earth to the highest heaven! The Prophecy declares it openly over and over. No one need resort to typology to find proof of the Son of God as Messiah. One need only read Isaiah, or any other prophet to gain this knowledge plainly.

Typology is great tool for confirming book upon book, But a message of the order that you would have me believe is represented in Mary should not have to be calculated at all, but should be plainly written as is the case with all that I believe.

[Rutles4Ever]

Bingo.

[trisham]

Believe as you will.

[Rutles4Ever]

, But a message of the order that you would have me believe is represented in Mary should not have to be calculated at all, but should be plainly written as is the case with all that I believe.

How, then, do you reconcile the Trinity or the hypostatic union? There's nothing explicit about either of those relationships in Scripture, yet I'm sure you believe in them...

[RobRoy]

>>Believe as you will.<<

As we all are free to do.

Thank you.

[Larry Lucido]

Indeed. That is a problem. You also refuse to think. Do you really imagine that after giving birth to God a "simply woman" would say, "OK, that's done, now that the angel's gone, let's make us some babies"

Absolutely, I believe that, except for your contrived trailer-park vernacular. Motherhood is a God-ordained vocation.