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To: netmilsmom; NYer; Gamecock
I remember a long time ago, a great man once told me that “Those who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.” He was VERY wise.

Yes, he was.

The John Jay Study (see threads here, here, and outside coverage here) - commissioned by the U.S. Catholic Bishops' National Review Board itself - found that the number of accused Catholic priest abusers equaled four percent of the entire Catholic priest population. The John Jay study's findings are more than conclusive - they're exhaustive of the entire US population of Catholic priests. Surely you're not suggesting that the New York Times would be as more reliable source of information than the John Jay Study?

As I've said elsewhere, every study I've been shown of "Protestant" abuse (which include many of the websites your Google search links to) included volunteers and laypersons. The John Jay Study did not address these groups when they looked at Catholic parishes. If we exclude volunteers and laypersons from the "Protestant" studies (thereby creating a "pastor vs priest" apple-to-apple comparison), we arrive at a roughly 1% abuse rate for all "Protestant" pastors, or (in other words) at least a four times greater likelihood that any given Catholic priest will be a sexual predator, as compared to any given "Protestant" pastor. And that's according to the numbers and studies that Catholics keep telling me about.

Let me throw in one caveat to those comparisons. I found something interesting when I broke down the "Protestant" abuse cases by denomination / affiliation / theological leanings. The more free will / Arminian / synergistic the theology is, and the more independent the association is (as opposed to denominational affiliation), the higher the abuse statistic goes - and conversely, if you just look at the Reformed Protestant denominations, the number of "Protestant" abuse cases statistically drops off the chart by comparison. It's only the average of all "Protestant" pastors that is around 1%. Some independent churches have statistics that are far, far higher than the Catholic average of 4%.

5 posted on 04/02/2008 7:06:44 AM PDT by Alex Murphy ("Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?" -- Galatians 4:16)
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To: Alex Murphy
Some independent churches have statistics that are far, far higher than the Catholic average of 4%.

Can you give some examples of "independent" churches?

6 posted on 04/02/2008 7:09:21 AM PDT by GOPJ ( Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright 's a racist - the black version of KKK David Duke.)
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To: Alex Murphy
The more free will / Arminian / synergistic the theology is, and the more independent the association is (as opposed to denominational affiliation), the higher the abuse statistic goes - and conversely, if you just look at the Reformed Protestant denominations, the number of "Protestant" abuse cases statistically drops off the chart by comparison.

It is anecdotal, but a Reformed chaplain who served as the chaplain at the prison at Fort Leavenworth told me that in the years he served there he never saw a Reformed chaplain incarcerated, but there were quite a few Arminian chaplains.

7 posted on 04/02/2008 7:15:59 AM PDT by Gamecock (Viva La Reformacion!)
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To: Alex Murphy
Well, to begin with, I didn't start a thread to slam a group of people.
Then, didn't call in the “Usual Suspects” to high five over it.

I did however have the courtesy to come back and acknowledge your post. Which is all that's needed here.

People will read all of the Google links and reach their own conclusions. And on that happy note, I'll take your lead and ghost it. Have fun!

10 posted on 04/02/2008 7:23:41 AM PDT by netmilsmom (I am very mad at Disney. Give me my James Marsden song!!!!!)
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To: Alex Murphy

“accused” means “guilty”?


12 posted on 04/02/2008 7:34:07 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Alex Murphy

Some independent churches are 10 people and a wood stove for heat.

If one screws up, then you can claim a 10% rate.

Since, however, arminian-like Christianity is far larger than is reformed-like Christianity, one must speak of rates and not of numbers of cases. So long as that is what your stats do, I’m fine with it to a degree.

This morning’s radio mentioned among other things that highly successful executives are more likely to buy 3 or more pairs of sneakers per year.

I am hurrying out today to buy 4 pair. I’m expecting a call from the General Motors CEO search committee by the end of the week.


15 posted on 04/02/2008 7:54:40 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain -- Those denying the War was Necessary Do NOT Support the Troops!)
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To: Alex Murphy; netmilsmom; NYer; Gamecock
The more free will / Arminian / synergistic the theology is, and the more independent the association is (as opposed to denominational affiliation),

I heard an excellent sermon recently that used this (in part) as their text:

People do not have a healthy fear of God. The Arminian normally believe that God is love and that He loves mankind. The idea of actually "fearing" God is translated as "awe" or "reverence". It is never taken to mean "fear". Yet there should be a healthy balance between the two understandings. Consider Moses comment:

The reason we are to fear Him is simply so we don't sin. I believe this message has become lost.

32 posted on 04/02/2008 6:04:40 PM PDT by HarleyD
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To: Alex Murphy

The percentages you offer would be for reported abuse. Is it possible that sex abuse by Protestant pastors is just not reported as often? The breaking of the scandal in the Catholic Church brought forth many previously unreported charges against priests. I ask this because a friend who was molested as a teen in a Methodist church never reported it, and that is probably often the case.


37 posted on 04/03/2008 11:27:37 PM PDT by informavoracious (Obama, the Emperor's New [Empty Suit of] Clothes)
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