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To: thefrankbaum

Here’s what immediately comes to mind:

(KJV) Luke 22:24 And there was also a strife among them, which of them should be accounted the greatest.

25 And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors.

26 But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.

(Message paraphrase) Luke 22:24-26 Within minutes they were bickering over who of them would end up the greatest. But Jesus intervened: “Kings like to throw their weight around and people in authority like to give themselves fancy titles. It’s not going to be that way with you. Let the senior among you become like the junior; let the leader act the part of the servant.

********************

Then there’s the Nicolaitan heresy-

Nico- to rule over
laity- the common people

Jesus said in the Revelation that He hates it.

**********************

There are other examples, but I just thought of these two.

Any division which sets one class of believer above another is heresy. Even Paul and Banabas were separated unto apostleship- not placed in rulership over the Body, but rather constrained by love and enslaved to the service of God, as it were.


166 posted on 03/25/2008 9:24:19 AM PDT by ovrtaxt (Member of the irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.)
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To: ovrtaxt
Any division which sets one class of believer above another is heresy.

Ever heard of something called an Elder?

172 posted on 03/25/2008 9:35:08 AM PDT by papertyger (changing words quickly metastasizes into changing facts -- Ann Coulter)
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To: ovrtaxt
Thanks for keeping civil - I haven't caught up to this thread yet, but I am always thankful for people who keep their head and put some thought into their answers, rather than losing their cool.

In response to your post, I agree with the paraphrase. However, it recognizes two things - one, that there ARE leaders, and two, that those leaders are SERVANTS. Now, in the Church, our Priests are some of the greatest servants you will ever meet, IMHO. I'm not gonna bore you with my examples from my experience, but I can if you wish. The reality of life means that most people cannot delve into the depths of Scripture and deduce all Its teachings, because a) most people (i.e., the laity) are (historically) busy tending the land, their herds, sewing, cobbling, etc. and b) a lot of people aren't blessed with the intellect of many leaders of the Church (the Fathers, Aquinas, JPII, etc.). Now, you don't seem to be completely anti-Theology, but if you are, (b) may be an issue for you - I concede that, and can discuss further.

The fact that our Servant-Leaders (Clergy) spend so much time studying Scripture, Theology before they become Priests, and then continue to do so when not attending to their flocks enables them to teach the rest of us who are either (a) lacking in time and/or (b) lacking in ability to do the same. Classically, Teachers were Servants. In Antiquity, patrician Roman families would own learned Greek slaves, who taught their children Greek, poetry, rhetoric, logic, mathematics, etc. It was very much a Servant position.

In response to the "Nicolaitan heresy" you mentioned, I admit I know little about it. However, here I found some information about it. It doesn't seem to me that the heresy is what you think it is - please, if you have some other source, send it my way.

Lastly, I don't agree that different classes of believers is heresy. Jesus Himself selected the Twelve from all His disciples. He decided that they were "different" from the others who followed him around - not better, not greater, but different.

Again, thanks for an interesting discussion.

240 posted on 03/25/2008 12:51:08 PM PDT by thefrankbaum
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