Did you even read the link refuting Baer’s claim? Many of those links contain opinions from experts that are not LDS. But of course, this isn’t a quest for truth is it? It’s about winning your case.
Show me any character on that scroll (or any of Joseph Smith's scrolls) that has been translated into any word in the Book of Abraham by an actual Egyptologist.
That would be evidence. I don't think you have even a shred of evidence. In fact, I know you don't.
You can use any of your so-called "experts"
I'll be waiting. I've been waiting since 1968.
One word.
I didn't mock the FAIR site, I merely demolished their claims with solid evidence.Re. They continue to cite anti-Mormon sites & literature as irrefutable & beyond reproach which is laughable especially when given valid arguments to the contrary.I believe your assertion I was not able to refute the info contained in the FAIR article is silly. I will, of course, leave it to each reader of this thread to form their own opinion, but submit to you the vast majority of all non-biased individuals will agree with me.
The anti-Mormon sites you refer to present direct quotes from LDS Scriptures, LDS leaders, third party sources (e.g. court documents) and distinguished experts (such as the Egyptologists mentioned in the video).Re. Many [links in the FAIR article] contain opinions from experts that are not LDS.By contrast, you are resorting to ad hominum attacks rather than presenting valid rebuttal evidence.
A person's religious faith has no bearing on the validity of claims based on science (e.g. did Joseph translate Chandler's scrolls correctly).Re. I would guess the anti-Mormon sites are for more credible.The non-LDS experts cited by FAIR are just as wrong as the conclusions stated by the LDS writers of the article. This according to experts whose credentials were presented for inspection in my posting to you.
Often times, YES.Re. But of course, this isnt a quest for truth is it? Its about winning your case.I have found that to be the case for the reasons cited in the next post.
With Time and all Eternity at stake, it is about learning the truth. And nothing else!The truth is Joseph Smith's translation of the papyrus documents was wrong. He misread every single character on the scroll in order to concoct a story he attributed to Abraham about a place called Kolob.
The Chandler document was written approximately 17 centuries after Abraham died. It contains a series of passwords and magic chants to enable the deceased (an Egyptian priest named Horace) to pass by certain checkpoints as he journeyed into the pagan afterlife.
I have found Utah Lighthouse Ministry far more credible than the LDS Church
For example, on the matter of the First Vision, the Tanner's have documented with annotations direct from Mormon historical documents the nine different versions of the vision. You can review them at your convenience HERE, where you will see rather profound differences. You will also note the first account did not appear until 1830-31 and the official account did not appear until 1838 a full eighteen years after it purportedly happened and at the exact moment when Joseph Smith greatly needed a magnificent event to shore up his authority and silence critics.
Mark Hofmann was a documents forger who foisted several dozen fake documents onto Mormon Church Leadership. Hofmann's amazing discoveries were purchased by devout Mormons and the donated to the Church. Writings favorable to Mormonism were placed on prominent display writings deemed damaging to the cause were secreted away.
Hofmann's most famous fabrication was the Salamander Letter. In this writing, supposedly by Book of Mormon Witness Martin Harris, a tenth version of the First Vision surfaced. Fortunately for the Mormon Church, the first account of the visitation was extended back in time a full five years to the mid-1820's. Unfortunately for the Church, in this telling Joseph was visited by an elf who took the form of a salamander.
Mormon leadership verified the authenticity of the letter, apparently relying in large part on the opinion of forensic documents examiners. Based on his vast knowledge of Mormonism, Gerald Tanner on the other hand immediately denounced the document as a fraud. Tanner was proven right.
The effects of the Salamander Letter haunt the Mormon Church to this day.
As can be seen in the photograph above, two Mormon Prophets, Ezra Taft Benson and Gordon Hinckley were among the duped.
President Hinckley would later candidly admit:
I accepted [Hofmann] to come into my office on a basis of trust I frankly admit that Hofmann tricked us. He also tricked experts from New York to Utah, however I am not ashamed to admit that we were victimized. It is not the first time the Church has found itself in such a position. Joseph Smith was victimized again and again. The Savior was victimized. I am sorry to say that sometimes it happens. Dew, S. (1996). Go Forward with Faith: The Biography of Gordon B. Hinckley. Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Company, p. 432.But according to LDS doctrine at the time, this was impossible.
In his February 26, 1980 speech at BYU titled Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet, LDS President Ezra Taft Benson maintained the Mormon Church President spoke with inerrant authority on "any matter, temporal or spiritual ," was "not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time," and "would never lead the Church astray".Following the Hofmann debacle, less than a decade after President Benson's pronouncement, an embarrassed Mormon Church was forced to proclaim:
Prophets are mortal men who have been ordained and chosen by God to be a mouthpiece for revelation and guidance, but that revelation only comes when God wills it, making it somewhat sporadic in both ancient and modern times. There is no expectation that every act, every decision, and every purchase by a prophet will be divinely and infallibly guided. As Joseph Smith said, "a prophet is only a prophet when acting as such." Jeff Lindsay, The Salamander Letter and Mark HofmannThe incident also led to the founding and naming of the Salamander Society, an organization founded by disgruntled Mormons for the purpose of Lampooning the LDS faith.
If you desire, I would be pleased to provide additional examples where the Tanner's were more truthful and/or accurate than LDS church leaders.