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To: Reno232; Zakeet; pby
Did you even read the link refuting Baer’s claim? Many of those links contain opinions from experts that are not LDS. But of course, this isn’t a quest for truth is it? It’s about winning your case.

Show me any character on that scroll (or any of Joseph Smith's scrolls) that has been translated into any word in the Book of Abraham by an actual Egyptologist.

That would be evidence. I don't think you have even a shred of evidence. In fact, I know you don't.

You can use any of your so-called "experts"

I'll be waiting. I've been waiting since 1968.

One word.

1,824 posted on 03/01/2008 10:53:22 PM PST by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: P-Marlowe
It sounds as though you’ve done some research on this, albeit not through the links I’ve provided. Your questions are very nicely answered therein. Surely you wouldn’t be throwing a red herring out there would you?

Maybe this will help to enlighten:

“The papyri that the Church now has in its possession are clearly not all that Joseph Smith had. There is no reason to assume that any of those we now have is the original of the book of Abraham. In fact, there is good reason to think that we in fact do not have the original. In 1842, the fragments we now have were described as being mounted in “a number of glazed slides, like picture frames, containing sheets of papyrus, with Egyptian inscriptions and hieroglyphics.”3 The next year, in 1843, Charlotte Haven, a nonmember, visited Joseph Smith’s mother, Lucy Mack Smith, and wrote a letter to her own mother about it, saying: “Then she [Mother Smith] turned to a long table, set her candlestick down, and opened a long role of manuscript [italics added], saying it was “the writing of Abraham and Isaac written in Hebrew and Sanskrit,’ and she read several minutes from it as if it were English.”4 Thus a contemporary source indicates that the scroll of the book of Abraham was not part of the papyri fragments now in the possession of the Church”.
http://farms.byu.edu/display.php?table=review&id=93

Furthermore, most of the papyri Joseph had were in a museum & subsequently burned in the great Chicago fire. Now, question, those missing papyri had been in that museum for some time until their unfortunate demise in the fire. The fervor to try & discredit Joseph Smith was every bit as intense back then as it is now. With all those papyri on display, one would think that some Egyptologist would have been commissioned to go & view the papyri in an attempt to fully discredit the prophet Joseph. And yet during all the time the papyri were there, there’s not one report of an expert willing to go on record to state the Joseph’s translation was errant. Not one!

I guess if we knew we had the originals, expert Egyptologists could be helpful today. Unfortunately, we don’t. Therefore your point is moot. Perhaps the greater question then is this, how does the Book of Abraham including fascimile’s stack up in general w/ the experts? The answer is a resounding, very well. Perhaps the “Forrest for the trees” analogy fits well here.

Also good research on the topic:

http://en.fairmormon.org/Book_of_Abraham_papyri_(long)

http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/display.php?table=insights&id=60

Anyways, hope this helps in your search, if a search is what you were really after. I’m off to church. Have a wonderful Sabbath.

1,829 posted on 03/02/2008 7:46:18 AM PST by Reno232
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To: P-Marlowe
It sounds as though you’ve done some research on this, albeit not through the links I’ve provided. Your questions are very nicely answered therein. Surely you wouldn’t be throwing a red herring out there would you?

Maybe this will help to enlighten:

“The papyri that the Church now has in its possession are clearly not all that Joseph Smith had. There is no reason to assume that any of those we now have is the original of the book of Abraham. In fact, there is good reason to think that we in fact do not have the original. In 1842, the fragments we now have were described as being mounted in “a number of glazed slides, like picture frames, containing sheets of papyrus, with Egyptian inscriptions and hieroglyphics.”3 The next year, in 1843, Charlotte Haven, a nonmember, visited Joseph Smith’s mother, Lucy Mack Smith, and wrote a letter to her own mother about it, saying: “Then she [Mother Smith] turned to a long table, set her candlestick down, and opened a long role of manuscript [italics added], saying it was “the writing of Abraham and Isaac written in Hebrew and Sanskrit,’ and she read several minutes from it as if it were English.”4 Thus a contemporary source indicates that the scroll of the book of Abraham was not part of the papyri fragments now in the possession of the Church”.
http://farms.byu.edu/display.php?table=review&id=93

Furthermore, most of the papyri Joseph had were in a museum & subsequently burned in the great Chicago fire. Now, question, those missing papyri had been in that museum for some time until their unfortunate demise in the fire. The fervor to try & discredit Joseph Smith was every bit as intense back then as it is now. With all those papyri on display, one would think that some Egyptologist would have been commissioned to go & view the papyri in an attempt to fully discredit the prophet Joseph. And yet during all the time the papyri were there, there’s not one report of an expert willing to go on record to state the Joseph’s translation was errant. Not one!

I guess if we knew we had the originals, expert Egyptologists could be helpful today. Unfortunately, we don’t. Therefore your point is moot. Perhaps the greater question then is this, how does the Book of Abraham including fascimile’s stack up in general w/ the experts? The answer is a resounding, very well. Perhaps the “Forrest for the trees” analogy fits well here.

Also good research on the topic:

http://en.fairmormon.org/Book_of_Abraham_papyri_(long)

http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/display.php?table=insights&id=60

Anyways, hope this helps in your search, if a search is what you were really after. I’m off to church. Have a wonderful Sabbath.

1,830 posted on 03/02/2008 7:46:40 AM PST by Reno232
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