FLDS Parents Could Face Charges for Abandoning their "Lost Boys"

KCPW News ^ | February 14, 2008

[pby]

I can post a lot of quotes from “experts” who would claim Jesus Christ was a fraud as well.

Really...I haven't seen any experts that have claimed that Jesus was a "fraud". To which ones do you refer?

Please recite articles in contradiction to the article I posted. I would enjoy the banter back & forth over a very interesting topic.

I will attempt to do so.

But...do you not think it important, even critical, significantly primary, to this conversation...that experts in the field of egyptian language and culture have concluded, without any doubt, that Joseph Smith's translation of the funeral papyri is completely innaccurate?

[bonfire]

What I always find so interesting is even when members KNOW that Smith was a fraud but stay because of the lifestyle.

[MHGinTN]

Frankly, you haven't the foggiest notion of what you claim:
"I can post a lot of quotes from “experts” who would claim Jesus Christ was a fraud as well. As a matter of fact, most of the world today believes He was a fraud."
It may surprise you to learn that Bible schiolars, even those in the anti-Chrsitian' Jesus Seminar, agree that Jesus lived, died on a Roman cross, and was sealed up in a tomb that in a scant few days was empty.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

You showed up to post that?

No. I posted it posthumously.

[pby]

Bible schiolars, even those in the anti-Chrsitian' Jesus Seminar, agree that Jesus lived, died on a Roman cross, and was sealed up in a tomb that in a scant few days was empty.

That is where I was going to go...

Thanks, MHGinTN.

[P-Marlowe]

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

[pby]

Of course.

[MHGinTN]

The spiritual adviser to your peepstone divination ‘prophet’ knows much more than you or I, but even his knowledge is limited. Had Joe or his spiritual director know that the universe started 15 billion years ago with a bang that brought into being space, time, and matter, perhaps his fantasy of the infamous little couplet claiming God evolved to His position of godhood would have been fabricated differently.

While Joe Smith was a fraud claiming to be a prophet of God, his spiritual mentor is anything but a fantasy. His real manipulations of men like Smith eventually gets outed though, like with pernicious adultery and fraudulent claims of ‘translating abilities’.

[Reno232]

Perhaps you would find a search on Muslim writings about Christ interesting. Muslims outnumber us Christians by a wide margin & they feel their experts are far more correct than ours. As I stated, doesn’t make it so.

Also, would you find it incredible to find that experts in this field don’t always agree? Especially in context of recent discoveries & what is laid out in this article?

Again, was Joseph just lucky?

[pby]

In regard to facsinmile 1:

In Joseph's interpretation of Facsimile No. 1, the bird was the "Angel of the Lord". Joseph said the Facsimile depicted "Abraham fastened upon an altar," being offered up as a sacrifice by a false priest of Elkenah. The figures under the altar were various gods: Elkenah, Libnah, Mahmackrah, Korash, and Pharaoh. This is referenced in both the Facsimile and the text of the Book of Abraham 1:12-14.

In reality, this is an embalming scene showing Osiris lying on a lion-couch. The actual translation of Facsimile No. 1 is:

"Osiris shall be conveyed into the Great Pool of Khons -- and likewise Osiris Hor, justified, born to Tikhebyt, justified -- after his arms have been placed on his heart and the Breathing permit (which [Isis] made and has writing on its inside and outside) has been wrapped in royal linen and placed under his left arm near his heart; the rest of the mummy-bandages should be wrapped over it. The man for whom this book was copied will breathe forever and ever as the bas of the gods do." (Klaus Baer, Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Autumn 1968, pp. 119-20)

I am looking up the claims that Joseph Smith was right on the four jars...but doesn't Scripture require a prophet to be right 100% of the time?

What are we to conclude, if an alleged prophet is not right 100% of the time, as noted above?

[Reno232]

Just so that you don’t feel I’m being unduly rude, unless you have something substantive to say that would be in accord w/ an adult conversation, I will not respond to your posts. I have found in the past that discussions w/ you are rarely based on a reasoned Christlike approach.

You have been one in the past, that when backed into a corner, w/ no coherent response available, respond to calling me & others “agents of Satan” & the like. That’s a sandbox approach & one that I will not participate in. I wish you the best MHG, but your method of discourse is not one that I choose to make myself a part of.

So, don’t take offense to my lack of response to you.

[MHGinTN]

How Mormonism proselytizing works if they suck you into 'asking God if the B of M is not correct and read the thing.

[Reno232]

First of all, there is no irrefutable evidence to show that Joseph wasn’t 100% correct on this. Second, do you really want to get into a discussion about whether all the prophets have been correct 100% of the time as man would understand? Be careful.

[pby]

Perhaps you would find a search on Muslim writings about Christ interesting. Muslims outnumber us Christians by a wide margin & they feel their experts are far more correct than ours. As I stated, doesn’t make it so.

May I politely point out that it seems that you may have gotten slightly off track, here?

I have seen debates between Muslims experts and Christian apologetic experts...Given that Jesus Christ is considered to be a prophet by Muslims...I doubt that they would label Him a "fraud".

[Reno232]

Here’s another interesting response to the question at hand for your perusal:

http://en.fairmormon.org/Search_for_the_Truth_DVD:Book_of_Abraham

[Reno232]

Some have labeled Him a prophet, some a fraud. Most the latter. Go to your neighborhood clerics & ask. As w/ much of Christianity, views differ from sect to sect. The point was, the majority opinion doesn’t always constitute truth.

[SkyPilot]

As for us. Let us let these comments slide off like water off a ducks back. So they hate us, so what? If God be for us who can be against us. March on.

Excellent words and advice - thank you.

I think it is also imperative upon those of us who wish to voice our thoughts on this forum to remember that it is a private site - and Mr. Robininson owns it. There is no "First Amendment" open borders clause here - and I respect that.

It is a privilege to post here.

I will say, however, that if there is a public debate about what many of us know to be false creeds and beliefs (Jehovah Witnesses, Islam, Mormonism, etc) that we be allowed to participate in submission to the Great Commission of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

Matthew 28: 19-20

[pby]

So you completely discount the quote that I posted relative to the correct translation?

This quote:

In Joseph's interpretation of Facsimile No. 1, the bird was the "Angel of the Lord". Joseph said the Facsimile depicted "Abraham fastened upon an altar," being offered up as a sacrifice by a false priest of Elkenah. The figures under the altar were various gods: Elkenah, Libnah, Mahmackrah, Korash, and Pharaoh. This is referenced in both the Facsimile and the text of the Book of Abraham 1:12-14.

In reality, this is an embalming scene showing Osiris lying on a lion-couch. The actual translation of Facsimile No. 1 is:

"Osiris shall be conveyed into the Great Pool of Khons -- and likewise Osiris Hor, justified, born to Tikhebyt, justified -- after his arms have been placed on his heart and the Breathing permit (which [Isis] made and has writing on its inside and outside) has been wrapped in royal linen and placed under his left arm near his heart; the rest of the mummy-bandages should be wrapped over it. The man for whom this book was copied will breathe forever and ever as the bas of the gods do." (Klaus Baer, Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Autumn 1968, pp. 119-20)

[pby]

the majority opinion doesn’t always constitute truth.

You and I certainly agree, here.

But...we are not just talking opinion, here...We are talking about the proper translation of a funeral papyri.

And the issue is...Did Joseph Smith translate it correctly, or not.

Language experts can make concrete determinations in regard to accurate and inaccurate translations.

[greyfoxx39]

From the list....
#8. Bait & Switch
#12. YOU play defense for a while.
#16. If I repeat this enough times some folks will be fooled into thinking it's true.

Beware of the TAR BABY!