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To: HarleyD; Forest Keeper; stfassisi; kosta50; aruanan

Original sin and actual sin are, of course, connected, but should you care to examine the connection scripturally, you would discover that there is no warrant to say that original sin alone condemns to hell.

The Church does not teach that absence of believe in Jesus condemns to hell apart from anything else, either. Factors such as obedience to natural law in invincible ignorance of the teaching of the Church offer a hope of salvation to non-Christians.


5,253 posted on 04/30/2008 5:10:48 PM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: annalex
The Church does not teach that absence of believe in Jesus condemns to hell apart from anything else, either. Factors such as obedience to natural law in invincible ignorance of the teaching of the Church offer a hope of salvation to non-Christians.

A better way of putting this is that God justifies and saves those who place their faith in him, that faith being counted as righteousness. The birth, death (slain before the foundation of the world), and resurrection of Jesus is the ground by which he does that, even if they were among the relatively few humans that lived in the days before Jesus was born.
5,254 posted on 04/30/2008 5:22:36 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: annalex; Forest Keeper; stfassisi; kosta50; aruanan
Factors such as obedience to natural law in invincible ignorance of the teaching of the Church offer a hope of salvation to non-Christians.

There is no hope for those outside Christ.

People know God. They simply don't wish to acknowledge Him. They're minds are darkened. God must give them a new heart and a new mind to walk in His way. Those who are outside of Christ are lost (and it's difficult to believe there is someone still left who has not heard of Christ). It is nice to teach that non-believers can believe what they want and still get to heaven but that was not the belief of the early church.
5,255 posted on 04/30/2008 5:48:12 PM PDT by HarleyD
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To: annalex; Forest Keeper; HarleyD; kosta50; aruanan
“”The Church does not teach that absence of believe in Jesus condemns to hell apart from anything else, either. Factors such as obedience to natural law in invincible ignorance of the teaching of the Church offer a hope of salvation to non-Christians.””

Very True, Dear Friend

The Gospel doesn't say that a person who never knew Jesus will be rejected. Christ refers to those who disbelieve Him, such as the Pharisees - when He speaks in John 3, for example. In Romans 2, Paul says that ALL men, even the Gentiles, have a law written on their heart. The Catechism details the “natural law” pretty well.

Basically, God has written onto our hearts the Law of Love. Even a person who has never heard of Jesus Christ can “know” this law. If a person loves, He abides in Christ.

We know that we can do nothing good without Christ abiding within us. Thus, when a person who has never heard of Christ can listen to that divine natural law printed inside of us - and the Holy Spirit blows where He will. Thus, a person who has never heard of Jesus Christ CAN be saved - because they are not specifically rejecting Him - and they are following His Law of Love - which is the summary of the Commandments, says James.

The Catechism refers to the Muslims - some have not heard the truth of the Gospel, so they cannot reject it. They have been presented a scare crow by their mullahs, so they are considered invincibly ignorant (as the Catechism calls them and other such people). A person will not go to hell if he is invincibly ignorant and loves others.Some Muslims in countries like Iran and others don't know Jesus Christ and the Gospel. They haven't been presented it. So how can they reject it? They only reject a scare crow, much like some anti-Catholic friends who don't know Catholicism.

Those who love know God!

From the Catechism...

The Church and non-Christians

839 “Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways.”325

The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,326 “the first to hear the Word of God.”327 The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God's revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews “belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ”,328 “for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable.”329

840 And when one considers the future, God's People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.

841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day.”330

842 The Church's bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race:

“Outside the Church there is no salvation”

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

848 “Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men.”338

325 LG 16.
326 Cf. NA 4.
327 Roman Missal, Good Friday 13:General Intercessions,VI.
328 Rom 9:4-5.
329 Rom 11:29.
330 LG 16; cf. NA 3.
331 NA 1.
332 LG 16; cf. NA 2; EN 53.
333 LG 16; cf. Rom 1:21, 25.
334 St. Augustine, Serm. 96,7,9:PL 38,588; St. Ambrose, De virg. 18 118:PL 16,297B; cf. already 1 Pet 3:20-21.
335 Cf. Cyprian, Ep. 73.21:PL 3,1169; De unit.:PL 4,509-536.
336 LG 14; cf. Mk 16:16; Jn 3:5.
337 LG 16; cf. DS 3866-3872.
338 AG 7; cf. Heb 11:6; 1 Cor 9:16.

5,270 posted on 05/01/2008 10:40:50 AM PDT by stfassisi ( ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi))
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