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To: kosta50; Kolokotronis; irishtenor; blue-duncan; Mad Dawg; HarleyD; stfassisi
FK: "When God executed His justice in the OT, it wasn't a test!"

No it was murder. Killing children, no matter what the circumstance, is murder. Killing children is not God's justice in the Christian faith.

No. "Murder" is a legal term and very often an incendiary word meant to stir emotions. It always refers to "that which is unlawful", in the genre. Since there is no law which says that God cannot intentionally kill humans, He is not subject to a charge of murder. Children or not. He is the potter and we are the clay. He can do whatever He wants with us within all bounds of morality, GIVEN God's nature as it is revealed to us in the OT and NT.

So, what's the point even if it was a temptation and you gave in to it? You could say, I am only human and I still sin, but next time I may be able to resist. But, then, you could also say, God gave it to me and I took it. I harmed no one and I feel "blessed." :)

Well, ONE point is that tests and temptations do NOT determine salvation, grace through faith does. Another point is what we ultimately take out of the experience. I can think of many temptations I have succumbed to that now are an anchor of strength for the experience. Some temptations I still struggle with today, but others are beaten by God's grace, such that they are not even temptations any more. The point is that we are closer to God for the temptations He has overcome on our behalf and we are therefore better able to serve Him.

5,130 posted on 04/25/2008 8:52:28 AM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper; Kolokotronis; irishtenor; blue-duncan; Mad Dawg; HarleyD; stfassisi
"Murder" is a legal term and very often an incendiary word meant to stir emotions. It always refers to "that which is unlawful", in the genre. Since there is no law which says that God cannot intentionally kill humans, He is not subject to a charge of murder

It's not the law, but the nature of God that prevents Him from murdering children, just as His nature prevents Him from lying, or sinning.

He can do whatever He wants with us within all bounds of morality/I>

God is Virtue, and God doesn't change. So at no time is God a vice. As Virtue, what He does with us is always virtuous.

Well, ONE point is that tests and temptations do NOT determine salvation, grace through faith does

Then the tests are unnecessary, and temptations are tortures.

Another point is what we ultimately take out of the experience

What purpose does that have vis-avis your predetermined salvation? None. You are already certain of your salvation and it makes no difference what you do or don't do.

I can think of many temptations I have succumbed to that now are an anchor of strength for the experience

I agree, but what does that anchor of strength do as for your salvation is concerned? If you are saved, that means God sees you as "just" in His eyes and nothing you do will change that. So, if you are just in God's eyes, why doe sit matter to you if you don't think you are; doesn't God tale precedence?

5,186 posted on 04/27/2008 10:20:34 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodox is pure Christianity)
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