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To: stfassisi
We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him.

This part of the Catechism I would agree with also. So would Calvin. Man is inclined to sin. Man in an unregenerate state cannot possibly freely choose to love God because, as the first part of the Cathecism stated, man's inclination is to sin. Thus God must change that nature to help man overcome this inclination.

Our Lord warns us that we shall be separated from him if we fail to meet the serious needs of the poor and the little ones who are his brethren

And this is where works enter into the picture and a total misunderstanding of original sin. Man is inclined to sin. God must change that nature and that change includes caring for the poor, etc. Those are a part of the results and they have nothing to do with the Lord threatening us with hell if we refuse to do it. We want to serve the Lord. We become slaves to righteousness because He has made it so.

To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God’s merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called “hell.”

Ah, and now we see how much the Catholic Church has moved away from original sin. In the first part man's nature was inclined towards sin. Now man must make the free choice to be with God or not with God. Doesn't this sound exactly like Pelagius error? It does to me. Either God saves you or you save yourself.

5,004 posted on 04/20/2008 5:23:57 PM PDT by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD; kosta50; Forest Keeper
“”And this is where works enter into the picture and a total misunderstanding of original sin.””

No Harley , this is where love enters the picture with us freely cooperating with God's Grace!

“”Doesn't this sound exactly like Pelagius error?””

Not at all! It sounds like God gives us a choice to follow His will for us or resist it.

from the catechism

1037 God predestines no one to go to hell;618 for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end. In the Eucharistic liturgy and in the daily prayers of her faithful, the Church implores the mercy of God, who does not want “any to perish, but all to come to repentance

Good Night ,Dear Brother.

I wish you a peaceful Blessed Evening!

5,005 posted on 04/20/2008 5:40:41 PM PDT by stfassisi ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"St Francis Assisi)
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To: HarleyD; stfassisi
Ah, and now we see how much the Catholic Church has moved away from original sin. In the first part man's nature was inclined towards sin. Now man must make the free choice to be with God or not with God. Doesn't this sound exactly like Pelagius error? It does to me. Either God saves you or you save yourself

No, because man needs grace and grace is obtained through Baptism. Grace restores us to the state where we are free to come to God. It was, indeed, impossible for anyone to come to God on his own until Christ's sacrifice on the Cross.

It is God who saves. But we must come to Him. He doesn't force us to sin and He doesn't force us to come to Him.

5,009 posted on 04/20/2008 7:14:46 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodox is pure Christianity)
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