the_conscience: No doubt you base this upon incontrovertible empirical data, using the same methodology as your Bible criticism, and have all the evidence to prove that all the rituals and dogma of the Greek church is directly handed down from the Apostles. (BTW, that would exclude any indirect references to old testament Jewish customs)
The New Testament tells us that the Church received the faith from the beginning and that the Apostles were there to receive it.
The point I was making, which you seem to have missed, is that at the end of the 4th century the Church canonized the New Testament. At that same time, the Church doctrines and worship are known and documented (two Ecumenical Councils, Trinitarian dogma, the Creed, the Divine Liturgy of St. Basil, etc. along with Church fathers, Cappadocian Fathers and the desert Fathers proclaiming one and the same orthodox and catholic faith in "word and in epistles").
So, to answer your question, Yes, there is objective evidence that the Orthodox Church today teaches and believes and serves the same divine liturgy as the Church served, taught and believed at the time of NT canonization. This objective evidence is in the fact that we serve both the shorter (St. John Chrysostom's) and the full version of St. Basil's Divine Liturgy, and that we teach the same doctrines taught by the Church at the time of its NT canonization.
You can't ,on the one hand, give Church credit for knowing which books are inspired, and on the other deny its knowledge of the word of God, it's doctrine, or it's proper ancient form of worship.
Of course you can.
Nothing and no one is perfect except Christ.
***The New Testament tells us that the Church received the faith from the beginning and that the Apostles were there to receive it. ***
There’s your problem. Churches don’t receive faith, people do. The Church received the NT which the Apostles and others wrote with the help of the Holy Spirit.
Who did this?
Seems like a lot of time went by before this was done, why is that?
It seems like there is a big gap from the end of the Apostolic Era around 100 AD and the late 4th century apprx. 374 AD. State sponsorship helped the centralized hierarchy, to eliminate all who would disagree, but it did not impart the power to determine who receives the Holy Spirit, or to lay claim to the "right way" to worship God.
Acts 10:44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word.
It is the indwelling Holy Spirit that identifies all Christians not a state monopoly. We were warned about not placing our trust in historic ancestry.
Luke 3:8 Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance, and do not begin to say to yourselves, "We have Abraham as our father." For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones.
the_conscience: No doubt you base this upon incontrovertible empirical data, using the same methodology as your Bible criticism, and have all the evidence to prove that all the rituals and dogma of the Greek church is directly handed down from the Apostles. (BTW, that would exclude any indirect references to old testament Jewish customs)
kosta The New Testament tells us that the Church received the faith from the beginning and that the Apostles were there to receive it. The point I was making, which you seem to have missed...
the_conscience: That's rich! You've been on this forum making the secular atheist proud in your case against the New Testament and then you turn around and use it as a source for your church? No, I didn't miss your point but that was a nice attempt at subterfuge.
I've just been holding up the mirror hoping that you see your bipolar epistemolgy. The only way you'll know God is if you see yourself as you are and the only way you'll know yourself as you are is if you know God in is utter holiness. I'm just the mirror holder and I can't effect the scales falling from your eyes but I pray the sovereign Holy Spirit might effect it.