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To: Dr. Eckleburg; kosta50

***If we believe in Jesus Christ alone as Lord and Savior, God incarnate; if we believe He is of God and from God and is God; if we believe He died to pay for our sins and was resurrected into heaven to prove it all true; then we can be assured by Christ’s own word that we are not damned, but instead are numbered among His sheep who will be glorified with Him in heaven.

You ask for evidence of these facts, and this is where the reformed perspective answers most clearly. This belief in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior is evidence of our salvation; not a requirement for it. The only requirement for our salvation is Christ on the cross “by whose stripes we are healed.”***

It looks as if cause and effect are reversed within the space of two paragraphs.

Paragraph 1: The belief in God causes salvation.

Paragraph 2: The belief in God is as a result of salvation.

By their fruits (and their words) shall ye know them. I appear to be looking at contradictory and contrarily opposite fruit. I understand that this confusion and error is at the center of Reformed theology; and I thank you for your contribution towards identifying it.


2,228 posted on 02/18/2008 12:53:14 PM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: MarkBsnr; Dr. Eckleburg
MarkBsnr to Dr. E: It looks as if cause and effect are reversed within the space of two paragraphs. Paragraph 1: The belief in God causes salvation. Paragraph 2: The belief in God is as a result of salvation.

Excellent point, Mark! I would only add one more contradiction in the Reformed reptertoire:


2,234 posted on 02/18/2008 3:51:19 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: MarkBsnr; kosta50
It looks as if cause and effect are reversed within the space of two paragraphs.

The misperception is yours, Mark.

If we believe, it is because God has given us faith.

If we believe, it is because God has given us new ears and new eyes and a new heart with which to believe.

If we believe, it is because God has named us to His family from before the foundation of the world.

And at a time of God's choosing, we will believe and know our salvation is by Christ's atonement alone.

"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved." -- Ephesians 1:4-6

We either believe God's word, or we don't.

2,256 posted on 02/18/2008 6:39:09 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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