Posted on 01/27/2008 7:56:14 PM PST by Manfred the Wonder Dawg
January 25, 2008
ESV Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
In recent days I have spent time in Lima and Sullana Peru and Mexico City and I have discovered that people by nature are the same. Man has a heart that is inclined to selfishness and idolatry. Sin abounds in the remotest parts of the land because the heart is desperately wicked. Thousands bow before statues of Mary and pray to her hoping for answers. I have seen these people stare hopelessly at Mary icons, Jesus icons, and a host of dead saints who will do nothing for them. I have talked with people who pray to the pope and say that they love him. I talked with one lady who said that she knew that Jesus was the Savior, but she loved the pope. Thousands bow before Santa Muerte (holy death angel) in hopes that she will do whatever they ask her. I have seen people bring money, burning cigarettes, beer, whiskey, chocolate, plants, and flowers to Santa Muerte in hopes of her answers. I have seen these people bowing on their knees on the concrete in the middle of public places to worship their idol. Millions of people come into the Basilica in Mexico City and pay their money, confess their sins, and stare hopelessly at relics in hope that their sins will be pardoned. In America countless thousands are chained to baseball games, football games, material possessions, and whatever else their heart of idols can produce to worship.
My heart has broken in these last weeks because the God of heaven is not honored as he ought to be honored. People worship the things that are created rather than worshiping the Creator. God has been gracious to all mankind and yet mankind has hardened their hearts against a loving God. God brings the rain on the just and unjust. God brings the beautiful sunrises and sunsets upon the just and unjust. God gives good gifts unto all and above all things he has given his Son that those who would believe in him would be saved. However, man has taken the good things of God and perverted them unto idols and turned their attention away from God. I get a feel for Jesus as he overlooked Jerusalem or Paul as he beseeched for God to save Israel. When you accept the reality of the truth of the glory of God is breaks your heart that people would turn away from the great and awesome God of heaven to serve lesser things. Moses was outraged by the golden calf, the prophets passionately preached against idolatry, Jesus was angered that the temple was changed in an idolatrous business, and Paul preached to the idolaters of Mars Hill by telling them of the unknown God.
I arrived back at home wondering how I should respond to all the idolatry that I have beheld in these last three weeks. I wondered how our church here in the states should respond to all of the idolatry in the world. What are the options? First, I suppose we could sit around and hope that people chose to get their life together and stop being idolaters. However, I do not know how that could ever happen apart from them hearing the truth. Second, I suppose we could spend a lifetime studying cultural issues and customs in hope that we could somehow learn to relate to the people of other countries. However, the bible is quite clear that all men are the same. Men are dead in sin, shaped in iniquity, and by nature are the enemies of God. Thirdly, we could pay other people or other agencies to go and do a work for us while we remain comfortably in the states. However, there is no way to insure that there will be doctrinal accuracy or integrity. If we only pay other people to take the gospel we will miss out on all of the benefits of being obedient to the mission of God. Lastly, we could seek where God would have us to do a lasting work and then invest our lives there for the glory of God. The gospel has the power to raise the dead in any culture and we must be willing to take the gospel wherever God would have us take it. It is for sure that our church cannot go to every country and reach every people group, so we must determine where God would have us work and seek to be obedient wherever that is.
It seems that some doors are opening in the Spanish speaking countries below us and perhaps God is beginning to reveal where we are to work. There are some options for work to be partnered with in Peru and there could be a couple of options in Mexico. The need is greater than I can express upon this paper for a biblical gospel to be proclaimed in Peru and Mexico. Oh, that God would glorify his great name in Peru and Mexico by using a small little church in a town that does not exist to proclaim his great gospel amongst a people who desperately need the truth.
I give thanks to the LORD for allowing me the privilege of going to these countries and broadening my horizons. The things that I have seen will be forever engraved upon my heart. I will long remember the pastors that I spent time with in Peru and I will never forget Adolfo who translated for me in Mexico. I will relish the time that I spent with Paul Washer and the others. When I think of church I will forever remember being on top of that mountain in Sullana at that church which had no electricity and no roof. I am convinced that heaven was looking down on that little church on top of that mountain and very few people on earth even know that it exist. Oh, God I pray that the things of this world will continue to grow dim and that God’s people will be caught up in his glorious presence.
Because of the truth: Pastor: J. Randall Easter II Timothy 2:19 "Our God is in heaven and does whatever He pleases."(Ps. 115:3) "He predestined us according to the good pleasure of His will."(Eph. 1:5) Those who have been saved have been saved for His glory and they are being made holy for this is the will of God. Are you being made holy? Spurgeon says, "If your religion does not make you holy it will damn you to hell."
No, where does He say that one can go on sinning and be saved? Luther's whole idea that one is "saved" by the sacrifice on the cross because it outweighs all the sins of the world is where his fetal error (no pun intended) is. Christ made it possible for all to be saved, but that certainly is not accomplished by sinning boldly or by "thousands of fornications a day!"
Contrary to Paul, and Luther, Christ teaches works-based salvation, works based on faith. Our conduct does count. He forgave sins and said "sin no more." Our intent is to not want to sin any more. But satanic Luther's theology teaches that one can go on sinning and still be saved, because Luther says that Paul says so!? What does Christ say about that?
And as for sin separating us from God, that's a given. Death came into the world through sin, because sin is separation from God who is life. The OT reminds us that the soul "that sinneth dies." Christ came into the world and freed us from death "because all have sinned." He gave us a parole, not a clean bill of health.
Now you are beginning to sound positively Zoroastrian! Talk about meandering theology...Reformed theology says that God intentionally created Satan for His own purpose because somehow this God of love absolutely can't accomplish anything without the evil one!
Now you are telling me that Gd absolutely hates this absolutely needed accomplisher of God's "plan" and that, in fact, God created His own enemy" not only to use but also to hate! Oh boy! This is nuttier than Star Trek.
Aboslute love hates no one, FK. Those who hate God, hate Him for His love.
The Bible says that Judas was deceived by satan, in fact satan entered into him
We agree on that.
satan only acts according to his nature, pure evil
Okay, and where does his evil nature come from? Who created that according to the Reformed theology? Was it not God? In other words, the Reformed theology teaches that God created pure evil, that He is ultimately the source and architecht of evil.
God allowed him to do specific evil in specific places, and the final result, along with a million other occurrences, was the salvation of God's children
And I thought God can simply change our hearts...but from the way you write it seems He really likes and needs evil. That's a very alien god you describe, alien to Christ I mean.
Oh, boy, how noble, given that average longevity in those days wasn't much past that number!
Irrelevant. The will determines inheritance rights
Irrelevant? So, adopted children are just like funriture? I don;t think so. But slaves were exactly that, like cattle.
You are saying that what the Bible teaches is morally repugnant, that part of God's Holy word is morally repugnant. What, then, is the source for your morality?
Not Leviticus! Imagine how you'd feel if you were separated from your wilfe and young children and witnessed her being sold to someone, knowoing you will never see her again, and your children to someone else who can kill them if he so desires, and then tell me if that is repungnant. Yet, the OT won't tell you it is.
You will have to say that your source for morality disagrees with what the Bible says.
Yes it does! I find the slavery of Leviticus repugnant.
He says (John 13:10), “He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all”
First, you have changed the question. Your original statement was “If sin doesn’t separate us from God, what does?” My answer was, “For the believer, I guess you would have to ask Paul” Your statement was, “Paul? Why, I would rather ask Christ. And what Paul says, Christ never said” and I said, “Where in the gospels does Christ say anything about sin separating one from God or the Father?”
Jesus does not address sin separating us from the Father, Paul does. What Paul is addressing in his letter to Melenchton is similar to the problem John is addressing in his first epistle. (1 John 1:8-10) “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
“If you are a preacher of mercy, do not preach an imaginary but the true mercy. If the mercy is true, you must therefore bear the true, not an imaginary sin. God does not save those who are only imaginary sinners. Be a sinner, and let your sins be strong, but let your trust in Christ be stronger, and rejoice in Christ who is the victor over sin, death, and the world. We will commit sins while we are here, for this life is not a place where justice resides. We, however, says Peter (2. Peter 3:13) are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth where justice will reign. It suffices that through God’s glory we have recognized the Lamb who takes away the sin of the world. No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day. Do you think such an exalted Lamb paid merely a small price with a meager sacrifice for our sins? Pray hard for you are quite a sinner.”
Luther is using hyperbole to bring home the truth that one has to admit he is a sinner, a real sinner or there is no forgiveness. He is saying there is no sin that cannot be forgiven because of the worth of the sacrifice and he is saying even after salvation we sin and the sacrifice avails for that. We all sin, but believers are reconciled to god, the relationship has been restored because of Calvary but because of our human nature we still sin and there is forgiveness. We aren't saved again every time we confess.
This has nothing to do with consistent grave sin that Luther was writing about in committing adulatory and fornication daily.
If you keep committing the same grave sin over and over again you're becoming more like the devil and headed for hell while detaching yourself from Christ.
Luther was either psychologically diseased or he was possessed by evil.
Take your pick?
I suggest you read Martin Luther's writings called the Jews and their lies .
He sounds more like Hitler's friend than Christian
ON THE JEWS AND THEIR LIES
by Martin Luther
http://reactor-core.org/jewish-lies.html
“I suggest you read Martin Luther’s writings called the Jews and their lies”
“He sounds more like Hitler’s friend than Christian”
Do you really want to go there. There is still Constantine, Eusebius, Ambrose and Jerome and their anti semitism along with,
Ignatius Bishop of Antioch (98-117A.D.) – Epistle to the Magnesians
For if we are still practicing Judaism, we admit that we have not received God’s favor…it is wrong to talk about Jesus Christ and live like Jews. For Christianity did not believe in Judaism, but Judaism in Christianity.
“Epistle of Barnabas” Chapter 4vs 6-7 (between 130A.D. and 138 A.D.)
Take heed to yourselves and be not like some piling up you sins and saying that the covenant is theirs as well as ours. It is ours, but they lost it completely just after Moses received it.
Justin Martyr - Dialogue with Trypho (Between 138A.D. and 161 A.D.)
We too, would observe your circumcision of the flesh, your Sabbath days, and in a word, all you festivals, if we were not aware of the reason why they were imposed upon you, namely, because of your sins and the hardness of heart.
The custom of circumcising the flesh, handed down from Abraham, was given to you as a distinguishing mark, to set you off from other nations and from us Christians. The purpose of this was that you and only you might suffer the afflictions that are now justly yours; that only your land be desolated, and you cities ruined by fire, that the fruits of you land be eaten by strangers before your very eyes; that not one of you be permitted to enter your city of Jerusalem. Your circumcision of the flesh is the only mark by which you can certainly be distinguished from other men…as I stated before it was by reason of your sins and the sins of your fathers that, among other precepts, God imposed upon you the observence of the sabbath as a mark.
Origen of Alexandria (185-254 A.D.) – A ecclesiastical writer and teacher who contributed to the early formation of Christian doctrines.
We may thus assert in utter confidence that the Jews will not return to their earlier situation, for they have committed the most abominable of crimes, in forming this conspiracy against the Savior of the human race…hence the city where Jesus suffered was necessarily destroyed, the Jewish nation was driven from its country, and another people was called by God to the blessed election.
John Chrysostom (344-407 A.D.) – One of the “greatest” of church fathers; known as “The Golden Mouthed.” A missionary preacher famous for his sermons and addresses.
The synagogue is worse than a brothel…it is the den of scoundrels and the repair of wild beasts…the temple of demons devoted to idolatrous cults…the refuge of brigands and dabauchees, and the cavern of devils. It is a criminal assembly of Jews…a place of meeting for the assassins of Christ… a house worse than a drinking shop…a den of thieves, a house of ill fame, a dwelling of iniquity, the refuge of devils, a gulf and a abyss of perdition.”…”I would say the same things about their souls… As for me, I hate the synagogue…I hate the Jews for the same reason.
Peter the Venerable – known as “the meekest of men, a model of Christian charity”
Yes, you Jews. I say, do I address you; you, who till this very day, deny the Son of God. How long, poor wretches, will ye not believe the truth? Truly I doubt whether a Jew can be really human… I lead out from its den a monstrous animal, and show it as a laughing stock in the amphitheater of the world, in the sight of all the people. I bring thee forward, thou Jew, thou brute beast, in the sight of all men.
Sure,The saints don't tell us to commit grave sin boldly like satanic luther
They don't defend sin and say sin boldly ,thus leading people to think Grave sin is ok
“If you keep committing the same grave sin over and over again you’re becoming more like the devil and headed for hell while detaching yourself from Christ.”
That is not what Luther is addressing. He is saying that the value of the sacrifice is much more than any sin we can commit. He is not encouraging habitual sin; notice the “even if” in the statement.
No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day. Do you think such an exalted Lamb paid merely a small price with a meager sacrifice for our sins?
Now, how many times did Jesus tell Peter we are to forgive the repetitive sins of our brother? Do you think God forgives any less?
“Sure,The saints don’t tell us to commit grave sin boldly like satanic luther
They don’t defend sin and say sin boldly ,thus leading people to think Grave sin is ok”
And neither did Luther. He had a higher view of the value of Christ’s sacrfice than some have of sin.
Do you use this to approve of your own sins?
Everyone must be in heaven than if you think this. Do you believe hell even exists and who goes there if you can commit grave sin and go to heaven
***Reformed theology says that God intentionally created Satan for His own purpose because somehow this God of love absolutely can’t accomplish anything without the evil one!***
Odd, isn’t it? We are accused of worshipping an ineffectual God that cannot accomplish our eternal salvation with a wave of the magic wand, yet the Reformed God must create Satan in order to do His dirty work.
***Aboslute love hates no one, FK. Those who hate God, hate Him for His love.***
Either God is an infinite God of love and mercy or He is not.
***satan only acts according to his nature, pure evil
Okay, and where does his evil nature come from? Who created that according to the Reformed theology? Was it not God? In other words, the Reformed theology teaches that God created pure evil, that He is ultimately the source and architecht of evil.***
The WCF teaches that God created evil, yet is not the cause of evil.
***God allowed him to do specific evil in specific places, and the final result, along with a million other occurrences, was the salvation of God’s children
And I thought God can simply change our hearts...but from the way you write it seems He really likes and needs evil. That’s a very alien god you describe, alien to Christ I mean.***
More oddness. The Reformed God allows and takes pleasure in evil, yet is not the cause and does not approve of evil. The more that I scrutinize the WCF, the more weaseling I see and the more evil it appears.
How does it feel defending evil?
“How does it feel defending evil?”
Look, if you want to discuss things intelligently I will accommodate you. If you want to persist with this juvenile foolishness have at it alone.
You haven’t shown in the context of the letter where Luther has advocated persistant sin or where he advocated “sinning boldly”. I have shown you now at least three times where he uses hyperbole in telling Melenchthon to admit he sins in the strongest terms because Jesus saves in the strongest terms. He has said that the value of Jesus sacrifice is greater than “even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day”. Those two satatements are not encouraging sin; but they are encouraging faith in the sacrifice for sin.
If you can’t see that then we are both wasting time.
I don't see anything juvenile other than my honest humble opinion of Martin Luther.
I honestly view lither as a type of anti Christ.
No joke!
should read..
I honestly view “luther” as a type of anti Christ.
“I don’t see anything juvenile other than my honest humble opinion of Martin Luther.”
Really, how about “How does it feel defending evil?”? Nothing in that question amounts to “honest humble opinion”. It is a statement of fact based on a misreading of the letter.
I assure you,dear enat, it is my humble opinion of anyone who defends Martin Luther on many issues.
I am being honest in my opinion and I would be lying if I said otherwise.
I wish you a Blessed evening!
It is not what Christ says, but what He doesn't say. And He never said that we can go on sinning because His blood will wash us clean no matter what. To the contrary, He reminds us that God can forgive but to "sin no more" after they are forgiven.
(1 John 1:8-10) “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
It doesn't say we can go on sinning. Confession requires repentance and true repentance means never wishing to repeat the sin you confessed. It doesn't mean you commit adultery today, confess the sin, then go and commit another adultery tomorrow. Only satanic theology would teach that in order to make mockery of Christ's mercy.
We will commit sins while we are here, for this life is not a place where justice resides
This life is where repentance is possible. There is no repentance after death. Luther's theology would have us sin believing we will be saved, yet if we "sin boldly" as Luther suggests we will die separated from God.
Sin is denial of God. And Christ reminds us
No repentance, no salvation. But Lucifer owuld have us believe otherwise, so he says through Luther "sin boldly" and don't worry—be happy.
That's not what Christ taught. What Luther taught is deceitful and we all know who the prince of deceit is. But he makes it very attractive to our human nature.
[Luther:] "No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day"
We need not look any further than Adam. Was it not sin that separated Adam from God? Was it not Adam who hid himself from God after he sinned? He didn't wnat to have anything with God. The Bible tells us in no uncertain terms:
And, if he were not a preacher of Lucifer, Luther would have admitted that it was sin that separated us from God and that it is imposisble to "sin boldly" and be saved.
Yes, we will sin in this lifetime no matter what, but the intent is not to keep on sinning as Luther suggests.
Only Satan wants us to believe that, because his goal is to separate us from God, to steal us form Christ. Do you not see his deceit?
And Luther must have skipped the part where Paul says we all fall short of God's glory because of sin (cf Rom 3:23). Is blessed Paul not saying that sin separates us from God? What was Luther reading and what was he thinking?
For someone who was supposed to be a theologian, Luther's claim that we can go on sinning (which means no repentance) because Christ's sacrifice is greater than all our sins put together, is denying Isaiah who makes it clear that wicked ways and forgiveness do not get pardoned [my emphases].
Now, which would Christ teach—that which Luther claims Paul is teaching? Or that which Isaiah is teaching? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that it would be what Isaiah is teaching and not what Luther is suggesting: in other words, repent, stop your fonications, and your thoughts of fornications, repent and return to the Lord.
Luther is using hyperbole to bring home the truth that one has to admit he is a sinner, a real sinner or there is no forgiveness.
Well, I agree he is using a hyperbole alright. God can forgive any sin but he won't, unless there is repentance. And repenatnce means topping your wisked ways, not committing thusands of fornications a day. There is no truth, as far as Chirst is concerned, that we can go on sinning and not worry because God has already forgiven us no matter what, as long as we believe.
If one believes he will not be fornicating a thousand times each day.
Luther's is a perfect man-made theology, allowing him to sin boldly and expect to be pardoned. He is not making Christ a liar but a fool. And that's what makes Luther's teaching so perfectly satanic.
If they repent.
The Bible doesn't say which sins we should confess, just that we should confess sins. I take that to mean all of them. I doubt that many people actually do that, but it appears to be the command.
If I confess that I got angry at a driver who cut me off, and then at another one who nearly hit me, and at a driver who was text-messaging while driving and weaving in and out of the lanes, is that important, or should I say that I was angry at the way people drive?
I don't recall any notion of "bundling" in the scriptures. :) More confession leads to more conviction and repentance.
The sin in all these cases is that I don't know why they were driving the way they did, and I judged them for something I presumed (negligence, carelessness, even "stupidity"). So, yes, the intent is more important. I need to be aware that others have lives too and that they may be dealing with emergencies that take their attention away form the world, rather than judge them and call them names.
Sure, and when you are aware of that, then you won't become angry and there is no issue of sin. My experience in becoming upset with bad drivers is that I only ever get angry when I'm REALLY already angry about something else. :)
Even for major sins, such as adultery, every little detail that qualifies as a sinful act is not necessary to describe. The fact that one has committed adultery is. So, yes, the intent is more important.
I totally disagree. There are a hundred different ways of committing adultery. Are you telling me that the confession of a single person sleeping around should be the same as that of one who consistently lies to his wife about his whereabouts and pays to have unsafe sex with a brood of prostitutes? I don't think it should work like that at all. That is why I say content DOES matter.
David committed just about all the worst sins you can imagine (adultery, killing the husband of the woman he committed adultery with), yet he was forgiven because he repented of the intent to repeat it. When any desire to repeat it has died, that's when you know that sin has been forgiven. The intent is no longer there.
Well, I thought that your point was that the murder would be wrapped into the sin of adultery, so David would have no need to separately confess it. That's what confession is like when content doesn't matter as much as intention. The intention was to get away with adultery.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.