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To: kosta50
“But satanic Luther's theology teaches that one can go on sinning and still be saved, because Luther says that Paul says so!? What does Christ say about that?”

He says (John 13:10), “He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all”

First, you have changed the question. Your original statement was “If sin doesn’t separate us from God, what does?” My answer was, “For the believer, I guess you would have to ask Paul” Your statement was, “Paul? Why, I would rather ask Christ. And what Paul says, Christ never said” and I said, “Where in the gospels does Christ say anything about sin separating one from God or the Father?”

Jesus does not address sin separating us from the Father, Paul does. What Paul is addressing in his letter to Melenchton is similar to the problem John is addressing in his first epistle. (1 John 1:8-10) “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

“If you are a preacher of mercy, do not preach an imaginary but the true mercy. If the mercy is true, you must therefore bear the true, not an imaginary sin. God does not save those who are only imaginary sinners. Be a sinner, and let your sins be strong, but let your trust in Christ be stronger, and rejoice in Christ who is the victor over sin, death, and the world. We will commit sins while we are here, for this life is not a place where justice resides. We, however, says Peter (2. Peter 3:13) are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth where justice will reign. It suffices that through God’s glory we have recognized the Lamb who takes away the sin of the world. No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day. Do you think such an exalted Lamb paid merely a small price with a meager sacrifice for our sins? Pray hard for you are quite a sinner.”

Luther is using hyperbole to bring home the truth that one has to admit he is a sinner, a real sinner or there is no forgiveness. He is saying there is no sin that cannot be forgiven because of the worth of the sacrifice and he is saying even after salvation we sin and the sacrifice avails for that. We all sin, but believers are reconciled to god, the relationship has been restored because of Calvary but because of our human nature we still sin and there is forgiveness. We aren't saved again every time we confess.

6,304 posted on 06/25/2008 6:04:59 PM PDT by enat
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To: enat; kosta50
“”If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.””

This has nothing to do with consistent grave sin that Luther was writing about in committing adulatory and fornication daily.

If you keep committing the same grave sin over and over again you're becoming more like the devil and headed for hell while detaching yourself from Christ.

Luther was either psychologically diseased or he was possessed by evil.

Take your pick?

I suggest you read Martin Luther's writings called the Jews and their lies .

He sounds more like Hitler's friend than Christian

ON THE JEWS AND THEIR LIES
by Martin Luther
http://reactor-core.org/jewish-lies.html

6,305 posted on 06/25/2008 6:45:48 PM PDT by stfassisi ( ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi))
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To: enat; stfassisi
First, you have changed the question. Your original statement was “If sin doesn’t separate us from God, what does?” My answer was, “For the believer, I guess you would have to ask Paul” Your statement was, “Paul? Why, I would rather ask Christ. And what Paul says, Christ never said” and I said, “Where in the gospels does Christ say anything about sin separating one from God or the Father?”

It is not what Christ says, but what He doesn't say. And He never said that we can go on sinning because His blood will wash us clean no matter what. To the contrary, He reminds us that God can forgive but to "sin no more" after they are forgiven.

(1 John 1:8-10) “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

It doesn't say we can go on sinning. Confession requires repentance and true repentance means never wishing to repeat the sin you confessed. It doesn't mean you commit adultery today, confess the sin, then go and commit another adultery tomorrow. Only satanic theology would teach that in order to make mockery of Christ's mercy.

We will commit sins while we are here, for this life is not a place where justice resides

This life is where repentance is possible. There is no repentance after death. Luther's theology would have us sin believing we will be saved, yet if we "sin boldly" as Luther suggests we will die separated from God.

Sin is denial of God. And Christ reminds us

No repentance, no salvation. But Lucifer owuld have us believe otherwise, so he says through Luther "sin boldly" and don't worry—be happy.

That's not what Christ taught. What Luther taught is deceitful and we all know who the prince of deceit is. But he makes it very attractive to our human nature.

[Luther:] "No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day"

We need not look any further than Adam. Was it not sin that separated Adam from God? Was it not Adam who hid himself from God after he sinned? He didn't wnat to have anything with God. The Bible tells us in no uncertain terms:

And, if he were not a preacher of Lucifer, Luther would have admitted that it was sin that separated us from God and that it is imposisble to "sin boldly" and be saved.

Yes, we will sin in this lifetime no matter what, but the intent is not to keep on sinning as Luther suggests.

Only Satan wants us to believe that, because his goal is to separate us from God, to steal us form Christ. Do you not see his deceit?

And Luther must have skipped the part where Paul says we all fall short of God's glory because of sin (cf Rom 3:23). Is blessed Paul not saying that sin separates us from God? What was Luther reading and what was he thinking?

For someone who was supposed to be a theologian, Luther's claim that we can go on sinning (which means no repentance) because Christ's sacrifice is greater than all our sins put together, is denying Isaiah who makes it clear that wicked ways and forgiveness do not get pardoned [my emphases].

Now, which would Christ teach—that which Luther claims Paul is teaching? Or that which Isaiah is teaching? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that it would be what Isaiah is teaching and not what Luther is suggesting: in other words, repent, stop your fonications, and your thoughts of fornications, repent and return to the Lord.

Luther is using hyperbole to bring home the truth that one has to admit he is a sinner, a real sinner or there is no forgiveness.

Well, I agree he is using a hyperbole alright. God can forgive any sin but he won't, unless there is repentance. And repenatnce means topping your wisked ways, not committing thusands of fornications a day. There is no truth, as far as Chirst is concerned, that we can go on sinning and not worry because God has already forgiven us no matter what, as long as we believe.

If one believes he will not be fornicating a thousand times each day.

Luther's is a perfect man-made theology, allowing him to sin boldly and expect to be pardoned. He is not making Christ a liar but a fool. And that's what makes Luther's teaching so perfectly satanic.

6,318 posted on 06/25/2008 8:30:01 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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