Posted on 01/27/2008 7:56:14 PM PST by Manfred the Wonder Dawg
To yield is not always to yield, it may be simply to engage on more favorable ground.
LoL... What a concept.. Spiritual break dancing..
When you go beyond scripture you're courting "problems"..
i.e. Sola Scriptura...
Not only do the RCC and EO do spiritual break dancing but the prosties do too..
To RAP yet.. Semantical dialectic with segues of "If'n"...
No, I said "provided." Read it again, carefully.
Nothing speculative or questionable
Just because you say so, it must be true?
Again, I'm happy to see you in agreement with us Bible-believers when you admit that some people actually do have new eyes from God and new ears from God
Wrong, again, Dr. E. I said "everyone...claims" to have (some sort of spiritual) eyes and ears.
What we do with those gifts says...who we are. They identify us
Actions speak louder than the words, Dr. E.
They are the result of God's favor
That is pure speculation on your part. First you are assuming that what we do, what defines us, is divine in origin and, second, you are assuming that it is a favor.
That's about as credible as saying there are pink unicorns on Jupiter.
I agree. Imagine if Christ decided to be "fair" and become (no pun intended) the devil's advocate in this case, and consider his arguments as potentially right—for academic reasons! Part of satanic relativism is precisely in the assumption that all religions have some truth and therefore must be treated as equal.
Satan convinced Eve that God is a liar. He also convinced many throughout the history that Christ and His Church were a lie, and ultimately, that the Eucharist is a dead "symbol," a"memory." He did that by changing theology! That's why we have a crop of cultists and heretics all over the place.
(See above which I mean to address to stfassisi.)
I think neither of you has thought enough about Regensberg, about reason and faith.
I trust the Truth to be, self-disclosing. I trust the Logos, the Word.
Look at Popepipus the First's response. He reasserts Sola Scriptura and then pretty much throws out the entire enterprise of trying to understand one another's doctrines before disagreeing with them.
It seems to me that such a response offers a couple of lines of approach, one good, one bad.
The bad one is the "HOGWASH!" approach. This reminds me of a pro-Mao demonstration years ago in Honk Kong. The Maoists brandished their :little red books", the Sayings of Chairman Mao", and the Hong Kong police retorted by brandishing their manuals of the rules and regulations and yelling the name of the Police Cmmissioner. Well THAT brought peace and understanding, didn't it? We already know we disagree.
The good one is to try to present a sincere good will and to try to understand and to explain.
So shall we just yell, "Are too!", "Are not!" at each other? You think Dominic would hqve converted the innkeeper if he'd just said, "You're wrong -- wrongitty wrong wrong!" Don't you see that the Albigensians had a legitimate complaint about the luxurious clergy and the neglect of askesis -- even though they took it to disastrous extremes? You think he never said, "Well, you've got a point there ...."
Hosepipe, I think, demonstrates that he doesn't understand either what we teach about the Eucharist or what we think about the role of the persons of the Trinity in it. But I suspect that, like HarleyD, he doesn't get that a big part of the problem is what a "thing" "is" in the first case, and that if he wants his rebuttals to hit their target, it would help if he knew where the target was.
I think if he really knew where the target was, he might not want to shoot at it so much. So I think time spent on establishing communication and common vocabulary is time not wasted.
And, while it grieves me when the Protestant/Ockhamist/Voluntarianist ideas that God is utterly unreasonable (that there is no way human reason can "get" anything important about God) and that all we can do, once we are given Faith in Him, is try to work out (with the aid of the Spirit, to be sure) His incomprehensible rules and follow them, I think it's important and worthwhile if the disagreement is clearly seen to rest in questions about the Transcendence of God and the role of Reason -- about what it means to call IHS the Logos.
Gotta run.
Christians believe that Christ is fully God and fully Human. That means He also has a human spirit. When Christ died, as a human being, he died and let out His spirit (according to the scriptures). If He didn't die, like the rest of us, and did not resurrect, as you seem to claim, then His death and resurrection are a lie.
I am including my friends here, to call their attention to your denial here, but I also include your friends as well, who call themselves Christian, and who so enthusiastically agree with you, to shed some light on this denial of Christ's death and resurrection.
It has to do with what you mean by die.. Which also has to do with what is life
Is there life in a flatworm? If you say yes, then you know the answer.
Science has no idea what life is, even now.. I have/wear flesh but the flesh is not me
What you are is a sum-total of your experiences and genetic makup, all of which is carnal. You eat what "tastes good." You sleep when you are "tired." You dress up when yo are "cold." You avoid "pain" (or maybe you are one of those who "likes" pain, I don't know!). You drink when you are "thirsty," you read with your "eyes." Everything you do, feel and need, is carnal. You have no proof that there is anything else "living" without substance inside of you.
Tell me, how does one "imprison" (oh Gnosticts!) a spirit in a body? What is a spirit, hosepipe? Is it circumscribed, like the angels, or is it limitless like God? Get real.
I am not a christian..
Well, that's obvious.
What is a chistian, Kosta?..Come on be bold..
Everything you are not. Is that bold enough?
But there are still many sheep in the pen(s).. afraid to come out.. Come on OUT Kosta, what do I have to come in there and drag you out?..
Maybe you (and others who share your views) nee, hosepipe, to come IN, hospeipe, or do we have to come out there and drag you in? Get my drift?
I hear you.. Why cant we just get along?..
Because sheep in the sheep pen(s) are not sheep in the flock(John ch 10).. They hear different voices.. He that has ears to hear, let him hear what Popepipus says to the sheep pens..
***He had a body of believers who were in a number of churches after Christ was resurrected.***
Name them.
***If you agree with Mark now that Christ was Only addressing the apostles and not the eager throngs who were assembled to hear Him as Scripture tells us, then that makes two of you who believe that.***
He was speaking primarily to the Apostles; the crowds nearby would have overheard.
***I think the Catechism reads stronger than that, but nevertheless, if you’ll agree that God’s “true truth” is fully revealed in the scriptures, to the extent God desired, then I think we are in agreement.***
The key phrase here is - to the extent God desired - which is neither a claim that everything has been revealed nor that further revelation is disallowed.
Jesus left us His Church - with the authority to carry on His work of bringing the Good News of Salvation to the entire world.
Oh, really now. Name the body of believers? Aren’t you getting ridiculous? There were churches at Corinth for one. Thessalonica, and at least five the other churches named in the Bible. I’ll look them up for you if you can’t. The body of believers is the ONE TRUE CHURCH but no use in telling you that since you believe the heretical Roman church has that distinction. Wrong.
***17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. ***
If so be that we suffer with him, that we MAY be also glorified...
If you don’t suffer with Him, then you may NOT be glorified together...
Remember the Judgement and those found to be unworthy based upon their deeds who are cast into the abyss created for the devil and all his minions.
How DARE you say that Hosepipe isn’t a Christian? You have no way of knowing his heart, only God knows that. Sometimes you really go way overboard. Sad.
We are not so bold as to be able to create our own theologies and wave them around.
***Do you do as many works as you can, hoping that they are good enough to get you into Heaven, all the while in fear and trembling? ***
We follow the teachings of Jesus and the Church. We are told that it is the state of our souls that count. Works for good are what is required. Works for evil must be repented from and sins confessed or our souls are in mortal danger. We must repent, confess our sins and receive grace through Penance.
***You are adding your hierarchy to the scriptures where it is totally unsupported by text.***
Jesus created His Church - and that is fully indicated by Scripture.
In my experience . . . discernment is both a gift and a spiritual ‘muscle’ that needs developed, learned.
***But I mean, if you really think of yourself as an adult adopted child of God who can make his own decisions and do whatever he wants, then I wish you the best of luck with that. :) I hope you make good enough decisions and do enough works, etc.***
Yes, your Silliness!!!! :)
It is in the commission of sin that we reject God, in fact, engaging in the process of unadopting us from Him.
***In any manner close to the analogy we are talking about parental rights terminate for the human parent when the child reaches 18 (barring some emancipation kind of action).***
We are not talking about parental rights, we are talking about the reversal of adoption. If I was adopted as a child, my adoptive parents are still my adoptive parents for life unless I (or they) act to undo it.
If I sin, I reject God. I work to undo that adoption.
I agree with YOU, wmfights. Many die practically on their death beds and have no time for good works. My husband actually led a man to the Lord who was in a coma when he went to visit him, the man woke up, asked Jesus into his life, and slipped back into the coma. No works there. Only faith in our dear Lord and Savior. God’s grace is so wonderful.
My point is that the Body of Believers in Christ and his resurrection are the true church. Not the RCC or the OC or any other institution. Only the Body of Christ.
I didn’t say God WAS the cause of my illness, I’m saying I thank God for the illness because he says to thank Him in all circumstances. I know He didn’t cause it. He’s just giving me the grace to go through it all. Period.
Actually, the only large print bible I could ever find is the King James, but I did find a New King James and that’s what I’m currently using.
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