Posted on 01/24/2008 8:01:22 AM PST by Manfred the Wonder Dawg
Subject: Report from Mexico
January 22, 2008 ESV Acts 17:16 ¶ Now while Paul was waiting for them at Athens, his spirit was provoked within him as he saw that the city was full of idols.
We flew into Mexico City last night at about 11:30pm. It was amazing to behold a city of 30 million people. I have never seen that many lights in all my life. We had no trouble getting into the airport and on to the place that we were staying. While at the airport we were able to speak a word of the gospel to three different people.
Today we left at about 9:00am and headed across Mexico City to a homeless mission. There were approximately 200 people present for the church service. I preached on the “Rich Young Ruler†out of Mark 10. I got the distinct impression that the people were used to hearing a weak gospel that is followed by the typical raise your hand to be saved and walk to the front to accept Jesus. I was pressing the law of God on them and they started laughing. I showed them from the law that they were liars, thieves, and idolaters at heart and they laughed. I then told them that it was not funny and that they had offended the God of heaven. There seemed to be at least a level of conviction that began to fall upon the place and out of the 200 people there may have been one person who was moved by the Spirit of God unto conviction. Certainly there could be others who God spoke to, but I was only allowed to see the one man.
The situation here is drastically different than in Peru. The people in charge of ministry teach and practice all of the things that I have been completely against. They push for numbers and use weak methods to try to bring about results that only God can accomplish. Today I did not give an invitation, but the pastor later told me that 22 people got saved. Where did he get the authority to pronounce 22 people saved? There is no way possible for him to know whether or not God gave them a new heart. Only time will produce the evidence of whether or not there is biblical fruit that is lasting. The experience was a good one and I am glad that I went, but I was starkly reminded of why I hate a watered-down man centered gospel. There is no power in a gospel that plays upon the emotions of man by using the methods of men.
This afternoon we finally made it to Tepito. It was horrid. It was worse than Sullana. They are worshiping a female goddess who has the appearance of death. She had a skull for a head and it is very demonic. We shared the gospel with several individuals and then we went to the place where the first shrine for Santa Muerta is. There were hundreds of candles burning as offerings unto this pagan woman angel of death. People would offer cigarettes, money, pictures, tequila, chocolate candy, flowers, fruit, and whatever else they thought would work. Out in front of this shrine they had symbols on the ground that you could stand on. One symbol you could stand on would bring death on all of your enemies. Secondly, they had symbols that you could stand on that would bring purification. Thirdly, they had a symbol that you could stand on that put a curse on Christianity. I went into the shrine and started reading the gospel of John in Spanish and people began to make threats against us. We went back in later and begin to pray and ask God to be glorified and people began to surround us and we thought we were going to be beat up. The owner of the shrine was not happy and then a big burly guy showed up in a taxi and was showing off his tattoo of death and I think it was some type of threat upon us. However, God was gracious and provided protection for us and when we were through praying most of the people had moved back away from us.
I want to take a moment and write a few thoughts about the gospel. First, the gospel is a supernatural work of God in which he regenerates and thus enables men to be able to believe. Without regeneration there will be no turning of man towards God. Secondly, Jesus did not make it easy for people to get saved. The woman at the well had to leave a lifestyle of adultery. The adulterous woman had to leave her sin. The rich young ruler had to sell it all. Nicodemus was never led in a sinner’s prayer. Men were called to repent. Men are not called to go through some man-made method that will supposedly produce salvation. Men are never told to repeat a prayer in order to be saved. Thirdly, Jesus never reported numbers in order to make his ministry look better. Jesus actually had many people turn away from him because his teaching was too hard. Fourthly, the only method that has been left for the building of the church is the proclamation of the Word of God. Paul never mentions how that music program is supposed to be. Paul never mentions to Timothy or Titus anything about demographic surveys. Paul never tells Timothy or Titus how to report numbers to an agency. There are those who would reference Acts and the 3,000 that were saved, but you never find this as a common practice of the church, but rather a demonstration of the power of God in the birth of the early church. Fifthly, salvation is 100 percent God or it is nothing. If man plays a part in salvation then he will have something to brag about when he gets to heaven. However, the testimonies of Scripture are about God doing the saving and no man.
Because of the truth: Pastor: J. Randall Easter II Timothy 2:19 "Our God is in heaven and does whatever He pleases."(Ps. 115:3) "He predestined us according to the good pleasure of His will."(Eph. 1:5) Those who have been saved have been saved for His glory and they are being made holy for this is the will of God. Are you being made holy? Spurgeon says, "If your religion does not make you holy it will damn you to hell."
Yes, in Rev 8:5 you gloss over the fact that the elders are offering the prayers, or interceding, on behalf of the saints. Seems like a big thing to ignore. I also suspect you might be missing Hebrews 12:1 and a desire to see Scripture as the Ancient and undivided Church did and still does, in fact, only the modern man made communities reject the notion that the saints in heaven are very much alive in Christ and as such, as perfected in Christ, joyously aid in His good work. Why you and others reject the prayers of your brothers and sisters in heaven is truly a mystery!
LOL!! Yes you are! BTW, just spoke to mi SIL a little bit ago, she's ding great, waiting to see if she will be eligible for another drug study, but so far so good and isn't every day a gift?!
“The RCC sacraments are not in Scripture and not in Christ - more man-made madness adopted by the RCC from pagan religions.”
That is a complete and utter bald falsehood.
“How do you know what this woman said? You arrogantly proclaim what was said in a conversation you had no part...”
I know truth when I hear it. I also know falsehood when I read it.
A fabric is made of the warp, the woof, and the weft. If one of those elements is false, the cloth is false and is thrown away.
The fabric you have presented as an email is false in its warp and its weft. There are falsehoods and the fabric is thrown away.
RCC doctrine assumes two things, if your interpretation lines up with that:
a.) The saints mentioned in Rev 8:3 & 4 are in heaven. Scripture doesn’t tell us. They might be still alive in the flesh, on planet Earth.
b.) The saints in heaven have been petitioned by saints on Earth and are carrying those prayers. Scripture doesn’t tell us what content of the prayers.
Let me clarify one thing: I have not said that heavenly saints cannot intercede on our behalf. Rev 6:9 - 11 shows that they, in fact, do just that. I maintain that we who are on planet Earth are not to talk to those who have passed on, be they in heaven or in hell, except for to speak to our one and only High Priest Jesus.
Heb 12:1 shows heavenly saints either watching earthly saints (my interpretation) or witnessing in heaven - praising God - for His work in His people through the ages (a dispensationalist interpretation). This scripture does not show Earth-bound saints speaking to or praying to heavenly saints.
““The RCC sacraments are not in Scripture and not in Christ - more man-made madness adopted by the RCC from pagan religions.””
Really? Which sacraments are pagan? You made the assertion so do tell us which ones and in what way. What is your proof?
Huh?
b.) The saints in heaven have been petitioned by saints on Earth and are carrying those prayers. Scripture doesn’t tell us what content of the prayers.
The content of the prayers is inconsequential, it could be a prayer that my dog is rid of her ear mites or it could be for the conversion of sinners, the fact is that, as you state The saints in heaven have been petitioned by saints on Earth and are carrying those prayers"
God loves us and we are His children, why would he cut us off from our brothers ans sisters perfected in him?
Show me which of these “sacrament” are from the Bible. If they don’t come from God’s Word, they come from pagans. In the mean time, when I have time, I’ll find information showing some of the pagan religious roots of some of the RCC sacraments.
Nope. You first.
You made the assertion, you prove it.
I have to go to work now, so you have time. See you this evening.
What is your question about my point (a)? Saints live in the flesh on planet Earth (the Bible calls all believers in Christ, saints) as well as in heaven.
Acts 9:13, Acts 9:32, Acts 9:40 - 41, Acts 26:10, Romans 1:7, Romans 8:26 - 27, Romans 12:10 - 16, Romans 15:25 - 26, Romans 15:30 - 31, Romans 16:15, 1 Corinthians 1:2, 1 Corinthians 6:1, 1 Corinthians 14:33, 1 Corinthians 16:1, 1 Corinthians 16:13 - 16, 2 Corinthians 1:1, Ephesians 1:1, Ephesians 4:11 - 12, Ephesians 5:3, Philippians 1:1, Philippians 4:20 - 23, Colossians 1:2, 1 Timothy 5:9 - 10, Hebrews 6:9 - 10, Jude 1:3.
All of those verses show that all children of God are called “saints”.
The question is; what exactly does this mean? Scripture doesn't tell us what? Alive in the flesh? Can you rework your thought into something coherent?
My thoughts are these: your assumption is (apparently) that the saints mentioned in Rev 8:3 & 4 are in heaven. Scripture doesn’t tell us if that’s the case. The saints mentioned in this (and many other passages) might very well be Christians (called saints, in Scripture) still alive in the flesh on Earth. It’s presumptuous for one to assert a fact not in evidence, which is what takes place when one claims the saints in this passage are in heaven.
She was not accosted (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/accosted)
Anyone who says they are saved by works, as this woman was reported to have said, wants no part of the Biblical gospel of Jesus Christ. I can’t read her mind - couldn’t if she were sitting next to me. I can read the Bible - being born again, made into a new creation, adopted by God - and it says a person is “dead in sins” until and unless born again. How much work can a dead person do?
As you can se in Randall’s email - he is not about promoting himself, but on reporting what he sees and what God is doing.
I don't think it's reasonable to assume that the reported conversation actually occurred, nor do I think it's reasonable to assume that the "lady" described in the email spam at the top of this thread even exists.
YMMV.
I see. The elders in Rev 5:8 have no interest to you I guess, nor does the fact that the angels, who we also pray to, along with the elders offer prayers of the saints to the Lord. The simple fact that scripture records both "elders" and angels as heavenly intercessors means nothing so you ignore it, I see.
BTW, asking your mother, pastor, friend or who ever is alive, in the flesh on earth, is also intercessory prayer, no different than asking the perfected in heaven to pray for us, since our God is the God of the living.
:)
The elders do hold interest for me - they weren’t part of the question. So you admit to praying to dead people and angels! That’s necromancy for ya - and condemned by God.
As I noted on previous post, the Bible records in Rev 6 that heavenly saints intercede on behalf of earthly saints. but NOWHERE in Scripture does God record the affirmation of earthly saints talking or praying to anyone who has physically died EXCEPT to Christ Jesus.
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