Posted on 01/24/2008 8:01:22 AM PST by Manfred the Wonder Dawg
Yes, in Rev 8:5 you gloss over the fact that the elders are offering the prayers, or interceding, on behalf of the saints. Seems like a big thing to ignore. I also suspect you might be missing Hebrews 12:1 and a desire to see Scripture as the Ancient and undivided Church did and still does, in fact, only the modern man made communities reject the notion that the saints in heaven are very much alive in Christ and as such, as perfected in Christ, joyously aid in His good work. Why you and others reject the prayers of your brothers and sisters in heaven is truly a mystery!
LOL!! Yes you are! BTW, just spoke to mi SIL a little bit ago, she's ding great, waiting to see if she will be eligible for another drug study, but so far so good and isn't every day a gift?!
“The RCC sacraments are not in Scripture and not in Christ - more man-made madness adopted by the RCC from pagan religions.”
That is a complete and utter bald falsehood.
“How do you know what this woman said? You arrogantly proclaim what was said in a conversation you had no part...”
I know truth when I hear it. I also know falsehood when I read it.
A fabric is made of the warp, the woof, and the weft. If one of those elements is false, the cloth is false and is thrown away.
The fabric you have presented as an email is false in its warp and its weft. There are falsehoods and the fabric is thrown away.
RCC doctrine assumes two things, if your interpretation lines up with that:
a.) The saints mentioned in Rev 8:3 & 4 are in heaven. Scripture doesn’t tell us. They might be still alive in the flesh, on planet Earth.
b.) The saints in heaven have been petitioned by saints on Earth and are carrying those prayers. Scripture doesn’t tell us what content of the prayers.
Let me clarify one thing: I have not said that heavenly saints cannot intercede on our behalf. Rev 6:9 - 11 shows that they, in fact, do just that. I maintain that we who are on planet Earth are not to talk to those who have passed on, be they in heaven or in hell, except for to speak to our one and only High Priest Jesus.
Heb 12:1 shows heavenly saints either watching earthly saints (my interpretation) or witnessing in heaven - praising God - for His work in His people through the ages (a dispensationalist interpretation). This scripture does not show Earth-bound saints speaking to or praying to heavenly saints.
““The RCC sacraments are not in Scripture and not in Christ - more man-made madness adopted by the RCC from pagan religions.””
Really? Which sacraments are pagan? You made the assertion so do tell us which ones and in what way. What is your proof?
Huh?
b.) The saints in heaven have been petitioned by saints on Earth and are carrying those prayers. Scripture doesn’t tell us what content of the prayers.
The content of the prayers is inconsequential, it could be a prayer that my dog is rid of her ear mites or it could be for the conversion of sinners, the fact is that, as you state The saints in heaven have been petitioned by saints on Earth and are carrying those prayers"
God loves us and we are His children, why would he cut us off from our brothers ans sisters perfected in him?
Show me which of these “sacrament” are from the Bible. If they don’t come from God’s Word, they come from pagans. In the mean time, when I have time, I’ll find information showing some of the pagan religious roots of some of the RCC sacraments.
Nope. You first.
You made the assertion, you prove it.
I have to go to work now, so you have time. See you this evening.
What is your question about my point (a)? Saints live in the flesh on planet Earth (the Bible calls all believers in Christ, saints) as well as in heaven.
Acts 9:13, Acts 9:32, Acts 9:40 - 41, Acts 26:10, Romans 1:7, Romans 8:26 - 27, Romans 12:10 - 16, Romans 15:25 - 26, Romans 15:30 - 31, Romans 16:15, 1 Corinthians 1:2, 1 Corinthians 6:1, 1 Corinthians 14:33, 1 Corinthians 16:1, 1 Corinthians 16:13 - 16, 2 Corinthians 1:1, Ephesians 1:1, Ephesians 4:11 - 12, Ephesians 5:3, Philippians 1:1, Philippians 4:20 - 23, Colossians 1:2, 1 Timothy 5:9 - 10, Hebrews 6:9 - 10, Jude 1:3.
All of those verses show that all children of God are called “saints”.
The question is; what exactly does this mean? Scripture doesn't tell us what? Alive in the flesh? Can you rework your thought into something coherent?
My thoughts are these: your assumption is (apparently) that the saints mentioned in Rev 8:3 & 4 are in heaven. Scripture doesn’t tell us if that’s the case. The saints mentioned in this (and many other passages) might very well be Christians (called saints, in Scripture) still alive in the flesh on Earth. It’s presumptuous for one to assert a fact not in evidence, which is what takes place when one claims the saints in this passage are in heaven.
She was not accosted (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/accosted)
Anyone who says they are saved by works, as this woman was reported to have said, wants no part of the Biblical gospel of Jesus Christ. I can’t read her mind - couldn’t if she were sitting next to me. I can read the Bible - being born again, made into a new creation, adopted by God - and it says a person is “dead in sins” until and unless born again. How much work can a dead person do?
As you can se in Randall’s email - he is not about promoting himself, but on reporting what he sees and what God is doing.
I don't think it's reasonable to assume that the reported conversation actually occurred, nor do I think it's reasonable to assume that the "lady" described in the email spam at the top of this thread even exists.
YMMV.
I see. The elders in Rev 5:8 have no interest to you I guess, nor does the fact that the angels, who we also pray to, along with the elders offer prayers of the saints to the Lord. The simple fact that scripture records both "elders" and angels as heavenly intercessors means nothing so you ignore it, I see.
BTW, asking your mother, pastor, friend or who ever is alive, in the flesh on earth, is also intercessory prayer, no different than asking the perfected in heaven to pray for us, since our God is the God of the living.
:)
The elders do hold interest for me - they weren’t part of the question. So you admit to praying to dead people and angels! That’s necromancy for ya - and condemned by God.
As I noted on previous post, the Bible records in Rev 6 that heavenly saints intercede on behalf of earthly saints. but NOWHERE in Scripture does God record the affirmation of earthly saints talking or praying to anyone who has physically died EXCEPT to Christ Jesus.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.