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To: topcat54; Uncle Chip; tabsternager
‘There must be since you are still trying to justify your odd position based on Hebrew vs. Greek, masculine vs. feminine”

Is it the masculine gender in Hebrew? Now, where does it say in the Old Testament that they will “see the Lord riding on a swift cloud”? God says He does ride, not that they will see Him and they experience the effects of His judgment just as they experience the presence of God in the Pillar of Cloud. They know when the judgment comes that it is from God because He told them. But in Matthew that is not what Jesus said. He said you will see me coming. They did not see him coming in 70 A.D, so what is the point of telling them something they won’t see or recognize?

“Jesus was obviously using the exact same language found in Daniel 7:13,14 to describe His ascension to the Father and the coming judgment upon unbelieving Israel that all happened within “this generation” in the first century.”

So then the “cloud” in Daniel was not an army but the glory of God, His presence. Now, where in the context of Daniel 7 is there mention of the judgment of “unbelieving Israel”? This prophecy is a reference to Psalm 110, ruling over the heathen, not a judgment of Israel. It is the writer of Hebrews “sit on my right hand until I make thine enemies thy footstools”.

So in Matthew 23:39 he didn’t really mean they wouldn’t see him again until he came in his glory because in Matthew 24 and 26 he said they would see him again in judgment around 70 A.D. but, they would not recognize he was coming in judgment because he was going to come in the guise of the terror of Rome to accomplish this.

Which is more believable, Jesus coming for His bride in the air without telling every one that they will see Him, before He wreaks judgment or His telling Israel they will see Him but they don’t because He comes disguised as Rome and they don’t know He came and they don’t know the temple was destroyed because of their unbelief? Oh, and every thing is getting better, even the cloning of humans.

800 posted on 11/12/2007 10:45:04 AM PST by blue-duncan
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To: blue-duncan; Uncle Chip; tabsternager; Lord_Calvinus
Is it the masculine gender in Hebrew?

You never did answer my question, did it make a difference to the translators of the Septuagint when they used the feminine Greek word for "clouds"? Your belaboring a point that makes no difference in the Bible, only in the world of the hyperliteralists.

Now, where does it say in the Old Testament that they will “see the Lord riding on a swift cloud”?

Hyperliteralism will not help you see the forest for the trees.

They did not see him coming in 70 A.D, so what is the point of telling them something they won’t see or recognize?

So what you are saying is that Jesus was lying to the high priest when He said to him " you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven", or you just don’t care to take His words "literally".

Now, where in the context of Daniel 7 is there mention of the judgment of “unbelieving Israel”?

That is the way Jesus applies it in His conversation with the high priest in Matt 26. Jesus is finishing the picture He started to paint in Daniel 7. All the prophets testify about Him.

Which is more believable,

Speaking of believable, I notice you did not answer my question about Rev. 14:14. If you ignore the places that make you uncomfortable, you will never figure out what is believable and what isn’t.

803 posted on 11/12/2007 10:57:10 AM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism is a disease ... as contagious as polio.")
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